is this poor technique?

[yarg682]

I've been playing for about a year and a half and I don't play half bad but I've noticed whenever my that play guitar mess with my bass they have their left hand very coordinated like ready on one fret as they're playing another is it bad if I just hit the frets as I go?

[Jake of Bass]

I heard years ago, when I switched from guitar to bass, that guitarists make the best bass players.

Whilst this isn't exactly correct across the board, the main reason for this statement is guitarists can become quite adept in using correct finger placement for chords, solos etc. I've come across quite a few beginner students who tend to 'bar' across the strings using the pads of their fingers instead of the finger tips.

Get some lessons, watch some instructional vids, get some books, do anything to adopt correct technique and apply it constantly to your playing. Pretty soon you'll find things will start to sort themselves out incrementally.

[ysand]

General rule:
Less moving up and down the neck, more up and down the fretboard in the same hand position.

Always remember, most notes are not "x" frets away but one or two strings up or down.

ps. se all 4 fingers of fretting hand
ps2. it will take some time till u get used to this

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

I heard years ago, when I switched from guitar to bass, that guitarists make the best bass players.

Whilst this isn't exactly correct across the board, the main reason for this statement is guitarists can become quite adept in using correct finger placement for chords, solos etc. I've come across quite a few beginner students who tend to 'bar' across the strings using the pads of their fingers instead of the finger tips.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying this is improper technique on the bass?

If so, I'm not sure that's quite true. Especially on the fretless, double-stopping strings with 2 fingers will make a real mess. It's often better to use one finger pad for this if you want to be in tune.

As for guitarists switching to bass, they usually do have a huge advantage with being able to play well with a flatpick. If I could play with a pick, and I've been trying futilly for years to learn how, that's all I'd ever use.....

LS

[Kevinmach]

Another general rule:

Often "proper" finger technique simply comes down to sound and which note has to be played next.

There are some instances where I will "bar" across the fret board to play what should be technically individual notes- but there may be slight "over lap" or "chord" sound. But if it's not at a point where it's noticeable, or the notes are played quickly enough where you cant really tell- then I think it's ok as long as your achieving the tone your after.

In regarding to finger itself, sometimes it's just a matter of where the next note is and how quickly it needs to be played- and how big your hands are! With whole and 1/4 notes, it's not as critical- when it comes to 1/8 notes and 1/16 notes, you could be making your work a lot harder and getting a sloppier sound by not using proper fingering, which is where it becomes more critical, IMHO.

As for guitarists switching to bass, they usually do have a huge advantage with being able to play well with a flatpick. If I could play with a pick, and I've been trying futilly for years to learn how, that's all I'd ever use....

Interesting, because I think most people see playing with a bass with a pick as huge disadvantage- there is way more that can be done with w/o a pick and a ton of stuff that you CANNOT do w/ a pick- than the other way around.

Consider yourself lucky if you learned how to play w/o pick- a friend of mine is a guitarist turned bassist for a cover band and has been doing it about 4 or 5 years now. In maybe 8 months, by forcing myself to use my hand instead of a pick (I had a bit of an advantage w/piano training), I am already playing things he really just can't because of pick limitations (like Rush and so forth)- and my stuff sounds much more "bass like". And I don't consider myself to be any more talented than he.

The only to advantages I can see with a pick are less of learning curve (you don't need as good of a plucking hand initially) and speed- which is debatable, because I've seen 4 fingers pick a string a lot faster than one pick. I think you're a little unique in that playing w/ a pick is harder for you- for most people, it's the other way around.

The only real advantage I can see coming from a guitar-to-bass transition is that you generally don't have to worry about playing a bunch of strings at once w/ a bass (accidentally muting them out and such), and the strings themselves are larger, and thus easier to hit (but require more pressure to achieve sound). The left hand for a guitarist typically requires more speed and precision, but for bass you are going to require more strength (and boy does my hand ache sometimes after playing the bass for a while- never really had that experience much w/guitar).

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Kevinmach

Another general rule:
Interesting, because I think most people see playing with a bass with a pick as huge disadvantage- there is way more that can be done with w/o a pick and a ton of stuff that you CANNOT do w/ a pick- than the other way around.

Er, like what? Apart from styles like slap, I can't think of anything technically that can be done with fingers but not with a pick.
Well, there're a bazillion pick vs fingers threads on TB, so I probably shouldn't restart a thread on it....
I suppose the reason I'm so respectful of the pick is some of my favorite players play pickstyle (chris squire, andy west, anthony jackson sometimes) and I'd love to get some of the sounds and abilities they show with the pick. I.e. some of the stuff anthony jackson did with al dimeola is with a pick and it's absolutely stunning. Same with andy west, etc.

Consider yourself lucky if you learned how to play w/o pick- a friend of mine is a guitarist turned bassist for a cover band and has been doing it about 4 or 5 years now. In maybe 8 months, by forcing myself to use my hand instead of a pick (I had a bit of an advantage w/piano training), I am already playing things he really just can't because of pick limitations (like Rush and so forth)- and my stuff sounds much more "bass like". And I don't consider myself to be any more talented than he.

The only to advantages I can see with a pick are less of learning curve (you don't need as good of a plucking hand initially) and speed- which is debatable, because I've seen 4 fingers pick a string a lot faster than one pick. I think you're a little unique in that playing w/ a pick is harder for you- for most people, it's the other way around.

Well I've never played guitar (tho I own one and have tried off/on for a long time to try to learn how to play), I started on bass back in high school (1979 or 80) and went with finger style from the beginning.

I can play with a pick well on one string, but er there're at least 3 other strings you need to use Moving from string to string, etc., I just cannot do it no matter how much I practice it. No idea why.

But I love the clear, articulate sound of a fast lick played with a pick. I'd love to be able to do that.....

LS

[Kevinmach]

I can play with a pick well on one string, but er there're at least 3 other strings you need to use Moving from string to string, etc., I just cannot do it no matter how much I practice it. No idea why.

Well, I could be wrong, but my thought is that most bassists who do this kind of playing (octaves and such) are primarily finger players. Yes, lunging 3 strings up to play and octave and come right back to the original note would probably not be the easiest.
That's what I was referring to when I said my friend could not play the more advanced bass lines w/his pick, it was almost possible. But maybe I am just not good with it.

You answer my question though, those are some good bassists,I didn't know Chris Squire played w/ a pic.

But I love the clear, articulate sound of a fast lick played with a pick.

You're right, the attack of the pick and be difficult to replicate with a finger. But I have heard it done, and don't some bassists keep their nails long for this purposes? (honestly, I hate when my nails get even a little long with the bass, I start to make mistakes and get this scratchy tones in w/my playing).
.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Kevinmach

Well, I could be wrong, but my thought is that most bassists who do this kind of playing (octaves and such) are primarily finger players. Yes, lunging 3 strings up to play and octave and come right back to the original note would probably not be the easiest.
That's what I was referring to when I said my friend could not play the more advanced bass lines w/his pick, it was almost possible. But maybe I am just not good with it.

My understanding from pick players is that that's challenging, tho they don't seem to end up worse at it than finger players. Look at Eric Johnson - true it's on the guitar, but he can cross large numbers of strings no problem.

In fact the most technically advanced stuff I've ever heard is from Andy West (dixie dregs) and Anthony Jackson when they were doing stuff with a pick....

You answer my question though, those are some good bassists,I didn't know Chris Squire played w/ a pic.

Yep he's exclusively a pick player. He's also, not coincidentally, the only human being on earth who can get a truly fantastic sound out of a rickenbacker .

The rick sounds incredible when played with a pick. I'd even play my 4003 if I could use a pick.....

You're right, the attack of the pick and be difficult to replicate with a finger. But I have heard it done, and don't some bassists keep their nails long for this purposes? (honestly, I hate when my nails get even a little long with the bass, I start to make mistakes and get this scratchy tones in w/my playing).
.

I've tried longer nails on my plucking fingers and it can give an edge to my plucking. Only problem is they break off almost immediately ;(

LS

[Erick Lam]

String crossings, muting and chords are much easier with fingers. You can play fast and clear with fingers too.

is it bad if I just hit the frets as I go?

Yes it's bad. You need to anticipate. You need to play in position and whenever you play a note, the fingers behind that note should be left on the string and the fingers in front should be hovering as close as possible from the string.

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by unclejane

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying this is improper technique on the bass?

It isn't per se, but if you want to use more dexterity, hence more accuracy and speed over time I've found playing with your fingertips as opposed to using half a hand or a couple fingers for a single note works wonders. Have you tried teaching a beginner with this kind of technique? They don't do it the proper way 9 times out of 10, and it can slow their playing up tremendously. I know you aren't suggesting this, but it's important to address and steer away from this as the OP may very well have adopted this kind of playing style.

If so, I'm not sure that's quite true. Especially on the fretless, double-stopping strings with 2 fingers will make a real mess. It's often better to use one finger pad for this if you want to be in tune.

Sure, but I'm under the presumption we're not talking about either fretless nor DB. Nor even double stops.

As for guitarists switching to bass, they usually do have a huge advantage with being able to play well with a flatpick. If I could play with a pick, and I've been trying futilly for years to learn how, that's all I'd ever use.....

Again, this isn't addressing what the OP is asking, as we're talking about left hand technique, ie. the fretting hand, not the right hand.

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by Erick Lam

String crossings, muting and chords are much easier with fingers. You can play fast and clear with fingers too.

I agree, and I've been playing guitar with a pick for 13 years. Bass just works better (IMHO) with fingerstyle for a variety of reasons.

Yes it's bad. You need to anticipate. You need to play in position and whenever you play a note, the fingers behind that note should be left on the string and the fingers in front should be hovering as close as possible from the string.

Exactly. And correct thumb position is key to this kind of good technique as you have more coverage of the frets, pivoting whilst your wrist and fingers move and your left (fretting) hand thumb anchors to the back of the neck until you need to move position. Building up finger strength is vital and try not to have the arch between your thumb and index resting on the bass as this restricts movement quite a lot.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

It is if you want to use more dexterity, hence more accuracy and speed over time. Have you tried teaching a beginner with this kind of technique? They don't do it the proper way 9 times out of 10, and it can slow their playing up tremendously.

I'm still not sure what you're referring to - what technique are you talking about that requires the fingertips instead of the pads of the fingers?

LS

[Jake of Bass]

Sorry, I editted my post for a bit of clarity:

"It isn't per se, but if you want to use more dexterity, hence more accuracy and speed over time I've found playing with your fingertips as opposed to using half a hand or a couple fingers for a single note works wonders. Have you tried teaching a beginner with this kind of technique? They don't do it the proper way 9 times out of 10, and it can slow their playing up tremendously. I know you aren't suggesting this, but it's important to address and steer away from this as the OP may very well have adopted this kind of playing style."

Maybe it's just me, but I find it naturally easier to to play quicker using my fingertips as there's less contact point on the string, thus more accuracy and economy is achieved.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

I heard years ago, when I switched from guitar to bass, that guitarists make the best bass players.

This is the most ludicrous statement from you yet. Good game!

[Jake of Bass]

Are you trolling me? How about you just go through my post history and just open up, sonny! Sheesh

Paraphrasing other people's posts for the lose, good one mate.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

Sorry, I editted my post for a bit of clarity:

"It isn't per se, but if you want to use more dexterity, hence more accuracy and speed over time I've found playing with your fingertips as opposed to using half a hand or a couple fingers for a single note works wonders. Have you tried teaching a beginner with this kind of technique? They don't do it the proper way 9 times out of 10, and it can slow their playing up tremendously. I know you aren't suggesting this, but it's important to address and steer away from this as the OP may very well have adopted this kind of playing style."

Maybe it's just me, but I find it naturally easier to to play quicker using my fingertips as there's less contact point on the string, thus more accuracy and economy is achieved.

K, I see what you mean.

Tho you get the correct part of the fingertip used for free if you simply insure correct fretting hand position. That is, the thumb behind the neck and the neck not being cradled in the palm or the crook of the fretting hand fingers. Fingers correctly arched over the fingerboard and mostly perpendicular to the neck where possible.

You see this overwhelmingly not done among guitarists and even bassists - the thumb is poking out over the top of the neck, the neck being supported in the palm or fingers. How fretting of individual notes is accomplished with the hand out of position like this I can't grasp. I've tried playing like this on purpose and I can barely do a simple C&W bass line.

The guitar seems to be far more forgiving of this particularly when playing chords. Even accomplished guitarists play like this a fair bit of the time.

You can also still get away with this on the fretted bass somewhat, but the fretless is extremely hostile towards the fretting hand being out of position.

Being in correct position is probably the first thing that should be taught (if I were a teacher which I'm not)......

LS

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by unclejane

K, I see what you mean.

Tho you get the correct part of the fingertip used for free if you simply insure correct fretting hand position. That is, the thumb behind the neck and the neck not being cradled in the palm or the crook of the fretting hand fingers. Fingers correctly arched over the fingerboard and mostly perpendicular to the neck where possible.

You see this overwhelmingly not done among guitarists and even bassists - the thumb is poking out over the top of the neck, the neck being supported in the palm or fingers. How fretting of individual notes is accomplished with the hand out of position like this I can't grasp. I've tried playing like this on purpose and I can barely do a simple C&W bass line.

This is what I was getting at, you just explained it far better than I. Thank you.

The guitar seems to be far more forgiving of this particularly when playing chords. Even accomplished guitarists play like this a fair bit of the time.

You can also still get away with this on the fretted bass somewhat, but the fretless is extremely hostile towards the fretting hand being out of position.

Yeah I was referring to having seen guitarists pick up a bass and use a more correct technique than most bassists who have played for a while without having had private lessons. There seems a tendency to use the aforementioned incorrect technique of putting the neck in the crook of the neck and laying the fingers across all strings to play one note. Most guitarists I've seen pick up a bass have a tendency to play it somewhat more correctly than this.

Being in correct position is probably the first thing that should be taught (if I were a teacher which I'm not)......

LS

Absolutely.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

Yeah I was referring to having seen guitarists pick up a bass and use a more correct technique than most bassists who have played for a while without having had private lessons. There seems a tendency to use the aforementioned incorrect technique of putting the neck in the crook of the neck and laying the fingers across all strings to play one note. Most guitarists I've seen pick up a bass have a tendency to play it somewhat more correctly than this.

Interesting.... I never noticed whether guitarists playing bass had better position...... you may very well be right about that.

I still don't understand where the thumb around the neck thing comes from to begin with. I'm completely and utterly self-taught and I used the thumb-behind-neck position straightaway. I might have looked at a picture of double-bass technique in a Mel Bay book or something in 1979 when I was first learning, but apart from that I just naturally could never fret notes with the neck cradled in the hand.

I've seen the thumb being brought around the neck for stylistic purposes by some of my heros like Jimi Hendrix and Louis Johnson, both of whom are just mesmerizingly outstanding artists (to me). But that seems to be an essential part of their style (i.e. they fret notes with the thumb).

Maybe that's where the idea comes from, dunno. But like I said, I've purposefully tried this on occasion and was shocked every time and how much poorer it makes my playing (which doesn't need any help to be poor ).....

LS

[Jake of Bass]

I admit most of what I'm saying here is coming from teaching a few rock music camps with students from 10-18, and they seem bent on using strange technique that can be hard to break. Most adults seem to pick up good technique almost straight away. Having said this, I've also had some self taught students who were already quite adept who had great technique, no previous lessons. Of course, no generalisation is ever completely correct, but I have noticed these tendencies over the past few years.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

I admit most of what I'm saying here is coming from teaching a few rock music camps with students from 10-18, and they seem bent on using strange technique that can be hard to break. Most adults seem to pick up good technique almost straight away. Having said this, I've also had some self taught students who were already quite adept who had great technique, no previous lessons. Of course, no generalisation is ever completely correct, but I have noticed these tendencies over the past few years.

Well tho I'm a strong advocate of self-teaching of almost everything except flying, I definitely recommend lessons at some point regardless. I did develop some other truly bad habits that I didn't discover until just a few years ago when I took up the fretless. I pretty much had to relearn a bunch of stuff that a good teacher could have caught very early on and helped me correct right then instead of 25 years later.......

I'd bet I could still stand some lessons on the fretless from an instructor and the probability is very high I'd learn a whole bunch of stuff ...

LS