Practicing vs Gigging... why so different?

xhawk5 · #1 01-02-2010, 09:36 PM

I'm starting to notice, as I get better on my new 5'er, some of my right AND left hand techniques that are a 'lil disturbing.
When practicing at my home studio, I can nail it, fluidly and with good accuracy. Like liquid. (y'all heard that term before right?)
Now, get in rehearsal or especially gigging, (I have over 200), my hands are not as fluid. My Right hand attack is more aggressive, allowing for string/fret noise. My left hand is not as fast and fluid as at home.
I've tried a partial sit, (my avatar), works a little better. I've also tried turning up my amp and playing somewhat softer.
Still, the problem remains. I don't play past my limits and I'm a confident player onstage, so nerves don't come into play. I am singing alot more lately though.
Any suggestions?
Thanks...
Hawk

Johnny Crab · #2 01-02-2010, 09:46 PM

You failed to mention your pratice-at-home position.
I've found that having marathon(to me) sessions at home STANDING UP same as a gig helped A LOT. This would be 2~3 hours straight complete with pedal board, mic stand, a few bottled waters, etc. It helped my shoulder build endurance and helped to uncover what you've found out.....those unique "at the gig" things that happen.

2 cents for your consideration.

Kuchar · #3 01-02-2010, 09:46 PM

Same thing here. My hand always cramps on stage, never at practice.

Gearhead17 · #4 01-02-2010, 09:56 PM

Are you practicing standing up or sitting down? I had to make it a habit to practice all of my cover band's songs standing up - you stand up on stage right? That's one thing to consider. Sometimes it could be the strap length...

The other issue is the gear you have, tone settings, and the acoustics of the room. Every room will affect the way your gear sounds and the sound you like at practice will be completely different sounding on stage.

What are you doing on stage? Moving around a lot? Struggling to hear yourself or other band members? When I could barely hear myself, I ended up playing harder than I should have - I had to consciously deal with that issue - it took a while to reverse bad habits, but it can be done.

Start analyzing the differences between live and practice - you might see where you are struggling.

**woolysock** · #5 01-02-2010, 10:11 PM

It's a combination of nerves, uncertainty, acoustic weirdness, stage sound, room sound, live audience etc. causing you to tense up. It's mostly mental. You need some butterflies to be on your toes and play your best but too much will make you press down too hard on your fingerboard, slowing down your playing and hurting your fingers. Just remind yourself that you dig playing. Lighten up and have fun ;-)

Cheers!

Gearhead17 · #6 01-02-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

You failed to mention your pratice-at-home position.
I've found that having marathon(to me) sessions at home STANDING UP same as a gig helped A LOT. This would be 2~3 hours straight complete with pedal board, mic stand, a few bottled waters, etc. It helped my shoulder build endurance and helped to uncover what you've found out.....those unique "at the gig" things that happen.

2 cents for your consideration.

I do the same thing! Gets your hands adjusted and ready to go for shows. I can last 4 hours on stage (if needed!) and my hands would be just fine.

xhawk5 · #7 01-02-2010, 10:39 PM

Yea. my hands don't cramp, only occasionally during one or two fast/repetitious songs. Think I'll raise my strap so the bass lays across my chest like at home. Looks funny, but so what.
And yes, I sit at home, stand at gigs.
All good advice, thanks.

Joe Nerve · #8 01-02-2010, 11:08 PM

Playing with a band gives you a bunch of other people you have to mix in (or compete) with that you don't have to when you've got only 2 speakers, yourself, and total control in front of you. It's easy to unconsciously start digging in a little more and play with different technique once you're in a band setting. Make it a live gig and then you've got some adrenaline (or hopefully at least some excitement) to add to the mix.

I've got 2 thoughts as far as suggestions go. First is to only play what you can comfortably. You might be pushing yourself past your limits. I think it's waaay better to play simply, in the groove, and with heart, than to play stuff you can barely pull off. And second, it you want to be able to pull off whatever you're struggling with live practicing going nuts in the house can help.

I do some stuff some people would consider weirdass, but it works. I take what I'm working with an slow it down a few notches on my media player. Play along going as nutty as I can, like a horrible ballet dancer. Speed it up a notch and keep repeating the same till I'm playing the song as fast as I can and jumpin all over the place. It don't matter how I look (nobody sees this thank god but me), the whole point is to get as comfortable and loose with my bass in hand as possible. I always strive to make myself one with my bass, like hendrix did with his guitar. It might give you the 'liquid' you're looking for in a band situation.

seanm · #9 01-02-2010, 11:19 PM

Could it be that the band plays the songs faster? This is very very common.

I learned a song for a band, went to practice, and blew it. I then went home and practiced the song 33% faster. The band didn't play it 33% faster, only about 28-30%, but one thing I learned from sax was to learn to play fast riffs faster than you need to. If you can play it faster than you have to, it seems easier when you play with the band.

Jr555 · #10 01-02-2010, 11:52 PM

I think dwelling on why or how to fix it seems tedious, and unproductive. None of us are going to know better than you what you do differently at home versus on stage. Spend time making conscious notes of everything you do differently before a gig or a rehearsal. Do you smoke ? Do you drink ? Do you drink energy drinks ? Do you stretch for one and not the other ? Do you eat before you play ? Do you play to a click track ? Compare all of these in both situations, maybe this is the answer. Regardless, while I understand that fluidity is something to be desired as a player, I dont believe there is any point in comparing how much better or worse you consider your playing in public. I make mistakes live, and I make improvements in both situations. It is of course much easier to notice your mistakes when others are watching, so maybe you should consider that as well. Ive been performing steady for 7 years, and have played gigs ranging from classical guitar recitals to punk shows, to R&B cover shows, and personally I find that if my fingers become instinctively more aggressive, then it is probably a result of the atmosphere, and I just take it as a positive thing.

Hope some of that helps, take care Hawk.

xhawk5 · #11 01-03-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr555

I think dwelling on why or how to fix it seems tedious, and unproductive. None of us are going to know better than you what you do differently at home versus on stage. Spend time making conscious notes of everything you do differently before a gig or a rehearsal. Do you smoke ? Do you drink ? Do you drink energy drinks ? Do you stretch for one and not the other ? Do you eat before you play ? Do you play to a click track ? Compare all of these in both situations, maybe this is the answer. Regardless, while I understand that fluidity is something to be desired as a player, I dont believe there is any point in comparing how much better or worse you consider your playing in public. I make mistakes live, and I make improvements in both situations. It is of course much easier to notice your mistakes when others are watching, so maybe you should consider that as well. Ive been performing steady for 7 years, and have played gigs ranging from classical guitar recitals to punk shows, to R&B cover shows, and personally I find that if my fingers become instinctively more aggressive, then it is probably a result of the atmosphere, and I just take it as a positive thing.
Hope some of that helps, take care Hawk.

Great advice. It does help, thx Jr

Jr555 · #12 01-06-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhawk5

Great advice. It does help, thx Jr

Cheers, hope you get some forward progress.

Dbassmon · #13 01-07-2010, 08:26 AM

Performance is mix of recalling muscle memory, song form, listening to and mixing with the other musicians and dealing with the adrenaline associated with live performance.

Very much like athletes playing sports, musicians must harness and control adrenaline and anxiety, hyper energy etc. The toughest opponent you will ever face on the field of play or on stage, is yourself.

The way to address this, practice perfectly. That is, practice with the same intensity level you plan on performing the piece. if there is a section that is not perfect, work on that just that section. Get it perfect consistently, own it. If you own the music you will be in a much better place to deal with nerves, or any other things that will cause you to get out of your zone.

Ever watch a pro tennis player vs an amateur? The pro's swing looks effortless, he is ready so early that it looks like he has all day to swing. He makes it look easy. That is a result of practicing perfectly. He owns that swing.

"Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect!"
Vince Lombardi

Jeronimus · #14 01-07-2010, 09:59 AM

Some good thoughts are already posted.

I've wondered about this for years (I've been a gigging bass player for over 30 now).

Let's assume that you're comfortable, your drummer keeps time and out of the way, the guitarist isn't deafening, etc.

I think the feedback is the biggest issue. By feedback I mean sensing what you are playing via vibration in the bass itself, clarity of amp tone, and the room acoustics.

Put strong ear plugs in and hold an unplugged bass against your chest and play. The feeling of playing with the immediate vibration is incredible, isn't it? There's nothing quite as satisfying as the buzz of the strings. Similarly you practice being able to hear your uninterfered with amplified tones.

This goes out the window in a gig. It seems like the rare gig when you don't feel like there's a signal loss in the feedback loop. Unless you stay back right next to a cabinet --and maybe this is why singing (and going up to a mic stand) is affecting the sense of connection.

Also any drummer plays with time differently than what you're practicing against. Practice with a perfect time source and a lot of drummers will drive you NUTS. If they drag or rush the beat of fluctuate you have to work SO much harder to make things happen right.

I've often thought about making a some sort of device that you either stand on or put in back pocket that give a physical vibration corresponding to the strings--it's that tight physical connection to the sound that's often missing and, for me, takes the fun out of playing live when it ain't there.

TL5 · #15 01-07-2010, 10:06 AM

There's a lots of good advice, I'm only addressing one issue: Standing vs sitting and the strap length.
I agree that practicing standing (if you gig standing) is preferable. Some time ago, I started adjusting my strap to be snug while sitting, which in turn keeps the bass it almost the same position when I stand. It's subtle, but worked wonders for me.

4001 · #16 01-07-2010, 10:11 AM

Mind over matter.
Pretend your audience isn't even there.

It'll feel like practice.

MNHRSCHINC · #17 01-07-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeronimus

I've often thought about making a some sort of device that you either stand on or put in back pocket that give a physical vibration corresponding to the strings--it's that tight physical connection to the sound that's often missing and, for me, takes the fun out of playing live when it ain't there.

Tecamp already makes something like this:

http://www.tecamp.de/index.php?id=61

Would be a lot more practical if it was self-powered IMO.

pointbass · #18 01-07-2010, 10:18 AM

I've been performing for a long time, and the primary difference between at home practice and gigging is the distractions. Your band mates, the crowd, lights, booty-shaking beauties, temperature variances, other noise .... all distractions you don't get at home. It's impossible to create a live gigging environment when you're practicing.

After all of these years, my daily practice time is more for working out stuff the band is putting in the rotation or merely to keep my chops in shape. My technique is too firmly engraved by now, so even the bad habits won't go away. I don't worry about it at all anymore ....

Mostly, enjoy yourself and don't do a bunch of self-examination when performing live. If, for example, you're worried about your thumb positioning, don't obsess over it at the gig. Stuff like that is a guaranteed groove-buster ...

CindyB · #19 01-07-2010, 10:18 AM

I can't speak for you, but I know what it is for me. Playing with the band, especially gigging, is more fun than practicing. I enjoy it more, I feed off the energy of the guys (and especially the crowd), and I dig in harder. I'm much more likely to get a blister at gigs. Also, I tend to need more water and I think that makes my hands/arms more likely to cramp. If I drink plenty of water (not just beer), stretch and warm up before playing, and don't mash my hands loading in, my technique is pretty close to when I'm practicing.

**lowendfriend** · #20 01-07-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

You failed to mention your pratice-at-home position.
I've found that having marathon(to me) sessions at home STANDING UP same as a gig helped A LOT. This would be 2~3 hours straight complete with pedal board, mic stand, a few bottled waters, etc. It helped my shoulder build endurance and helped to uncover what you've found out.....those unique "at the gig" things that happen.

2 cents for your consideration.

+1000!!!

Another thing I just mentioned on the hw setup thread, learn how to do your own setup >>real well<< so that you personally "get" the trades you are making when going for the elusive "lowest action". (Low action is way over-rated IMHO). And have that setup string by string tweaked for your standing position.

I would find that I would nail things in sitting during practice and then flounder like an idiot when I was standing for the gig (learned this at a Blues Jam

). A tweaked higher A string action (on a 5-er) solved a big right hand stumblefingers problem I was having when shifting from sit to stand.

Another thing, use the free software program, BestPractice, to be sure you actually have the right fingerings right and left for especially new songs u r learning. I find that I "imagine" more elaborate notes when picking a song off an MP3, that I find is actually much simpler than I thought when I slow it down, learn it right and then work backup to 100 or 110% speed.

Thanks to OP for asking a question we all needed to think about (at least us relative beginners!)