Practing Turning Bad

**iriegnome** · #1 02-28-2011, 01:44 PM

So over the past year I have been on a quest to boost my knowledge up to where my playing ability is/was. Spent on average of 5 hours a week (aside from band time) practicing and learning everything from scales, modes, minor 7ths, major 7ths, dominant 7ths, mixolydian scales, working on left hand fret positioning, right hand attack and wrist positioning. The whole thing. So now my knowledge is opening up my playing, but my playing (IMHO) seems to be getting worse.. What the heck is up with that?? Any pointers? I am probably overthinking now on stage, but my 3 guitarists are all music teachers, so there is a little pressure to know what I am playing and not just be able to play. But is really seems to be messing with my playing.... Any tips would be cool!

MonkeyBass · #2 02-28-2011, 01:54 PM

Just let it all sink in for awhile. You'll get it back. Same thing happened to me after music school.

**lowendfriend** · #3 02-28-2011, 02:00 PM

Great advice, MB....the brain goes through stages of learning....there is lots more than "not learned" and "learned"....a whole set of grey scale in between. Practice persistently so the learning gets committed to "muscle memory" not just the brain. The spinal cord is capable of getting routine things "delegated" from the brain, but it takes a lonnnng time for that to happen and it really really has to be routine.

shadow_FIX · #4 02-28-2011, 03:16 PM

Very normal, happened to me.

I already had a great music foundation before I started playing bass (not trying to toot my own horn, but I had played piano for years before...now I only play bass!) but when I really started to learn my way around the neck, I began trying too hard. When I say "trying too hard", I don't mean you should just close your eyes, play notes and hope you get it right. Keep practicing those concepts and engrain them into your brain until they become second nature. You will get to the point where you won't have to actively think "Okay this is a ii-V7-I in this key, so I need to play this scale etc etc...you'll just do it.

I also went through a period of overplaying because my technique improved. I got politely called on it by a close friend and great musician.

**iriegnome** · #5 02-28-2011, 07:59 PM

I realize it is like getting a new pedal or a new riff! It always get overused until you get used to it an it settles down into a routine. Man I hate overthinking everything!

oi_pride · #6 02-28-2011, 08:08 PM

Forget all you learned. Let your soul play for you.

When I just play, my playing and even my sound is better. When I try to plan out or think to much I tend to get sloppy. So just stop thinking about it and just play.

puddin tame · #7 02-28-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriegnome

So over the past year I have been on a quest to boost my knowledge up to where my playing ability is/was. Spent on average of 5 hours a week (aside from band time) practicing and learning everything from scales, modes, minor 7ths, major 7ths, dominant 7ths, mixolydian scales, working on left hand fret positioning, right hand attack and wrist positioning. The whole thing. So now my knowledge is opening up my playing, but my playing (IMHO) seems to be getting worse.. What the heck is up with that?? Any pointers? I am probably overthinking now on stage, but my 3 guitarists are all music teachers, so there is a little pressure to know what I am playing and not just be able to play. But is really seems to be messing with my playing.... Any tips would be cool!

who the hell cares if you know what you're playing as long as it sounds good?

sounds like your knowledge and technique are growing faster than your musical maturity. you've dedicated your time to learning all this complicated theory and I have a feeling that's clouding your judgement, because most of the time all you need to do is hit the root, third or fifth

oi_pride · #8 02-28-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddin tame

who the hell cares if you know what you're playing as long as it sounds good?

sounds like your knowledge and technique are growing faster than your musical maturity. you've dedicated your time to learning all this complicated theory and I have a feeling that's clouding your judgement, because most of the time all you need to do is hit the root, third or fifth

I could not agree more. A good friend of mine is technically better than I am but he doesn't play with any soul. I've had people tell me they thought I was a better bass player.

oi_pride · #9 02-28-2011, 08:20 PM

To me it's not so much what you play but how you play it, a great player can make a few notes sound amazing.

senp5f · #10 02-28-2011, 10:33 PM

Try stepping back and just learning some great songs. Pick some songs that are challenging to nail but not technical -- that is, something that consists of only a few notes and depends on the feel. Then use that same amount of focus you've been applying to theory to the feel. Where does this note fall in relation to the bass drum? Where are the drummer and I in relation to the beat? Am I smooth? I can hit the notes, but can I play the music? Do I have the groove? Am I compelling even the nerdiest dude in the club to get down?

Technique just as much about how many booties are shakin in the bar as how many notes you can play in a bar.

**iriegnome** · #11 03-01-2011, 08:18 AM

The technical part of our music comes from 3 very talented and very schooled guitards. I agree that I should know scales and the rest of that crap, but it seems that now that I am somewhat good with that, I seem to be playing thinking about it.
I know that hitting the natural 7 in a dominant 7 phrasing is not bad, but it is not great. That is what we are looking for. When playing with 3 guitarists who all are guitar teachers, I have to bring my knowledge up. I am having fun with it too. However, I am working now to play with my knowledge and my ability to play.. This is way harder than I ever thought

maturanesa · #12 03-01-2011, 12:57 PM

for me, overthinking when playing is a necesary and natural step for learning. Its impossible to know the theory about a scale and then playing "with your soul" on stage. Before that, you got to spend some time playing and thinking what are you doing. Even sometimes you got to play a part you never learned...Generally when i (and many others) play jazz at jams, the guys just put the chords in front of you and got to read it and thinking what notes to play and the key changes at the same time your´re playing on stage...

johnboy65 · #13 03-01-2011, 01:09 PM

Almost every bad note I've played on stage has come from thinking about something other than the song or trying to impress another musician (and really other bass players).
Keep it simple for a while and let the notes come into the equation organicaly. You don't have to use up your yearly allotment of notes in one night!

"You try to rush miracles, you get rotten miracles" Miracle Max (The Princess Bride). Man I loved that movie as a kid...

**iriegnome** · #14 03-02-2011, 07:45 AM

So after a nice 4 hour practice last night, I really looked at my playing. It is not me. My guitarists are looking for me to take over. To lead the band out of places (we are a jam band) where the band might be stalled. This is my issue. I am a support bassist. I do not play lead. I prefer and always have prefered to stay rhythm. I don't mind stepping out a bit once in a while, but I am not a leader. This problem actually is not mine, but my guitards.

Spin Doctor · #15 03-02-2011, 09:46 AM

I'm not sure what you mean about lead the band out of places. I can tell you what I think you mean. Since you are a jam band, (I'm sorta in one too) the songs get long and potentially kinda aimless at times. So they need you (or somebody) to move the song into another direction or maybe an ending...

In that case, yeah it's your job to head the band outta the weeds. The bass drives the band, and you are not a passenger as much as you think, or as much as it sounds like it to most people. I've been told by a very well reguarded bassist that the bass and drums are the Dad and Mom of the band. While the kids (guitards, singers) are out running around doing whatever, we have to watch over the flock.

It's actually pretty easy to lead the band out. And it doesn't take any lessons, or scales, really.

Just do something different... You really don't have to play lead, as you put it.

Change the time, i.e. double-time the riff, half time it, change your dynamic, get louder when it's soft, soft when it's loud, whatever. Generally anything you do differently will change the vibe and move things in another direction. It's mostly a feel thing, so maybe this will work for you and maybe I'm talking outta my hat.

But for example, my band does a version of Pipeline with a sorta psychadelic section in it. So when we get to it, the guitars start wailin' and doin' their best Hendrix s**t, distortion, scraping the strings against the amps, whatever. It sounds way better than it's described here and has the potential to train wreck if left going too long. Anyway, while they do all that, I just thump on the low E with some kinda tribal groove and let them play. When it's time to come in, I double-time thumping a ghost E on the 12th fret. And they all calm down and it heads to the end.

I never intended for it to be like a call to supper, it just happened that way. So long story longer, hopefully this is what you meant, or I spent a lot of time typing this s**t for nothing, lol.

Give it a try. It really is your job, ya know...

**iriegnome** · #16 03-02-2011, 11:52 AM

That is sort of how I meant it. I all ready change up grooves and all the rest of that. What I discovered is they want key changes and forthought into the next song and I am not the person who calls songs. I totally get changing up feel, but we play totally unscripted. No setlist ever. Since the 3 guitarists call 98% of the tunes, they take the lead in which direction the band goes. They are now pointing at me and I am not wanting to do that. As bassist, I understand that it is my lines driving the band, but I just don't think I am the one who should be making key changes and such.

Ben Esparza · #17 03-02-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriegnome

So over the past year I have been on a quest to boost my knowledge up to where my playing ability is/was. Spent on average of 5 hours a week (aside from band time) practicing and learning everything from scales, modes, minor 7ths, major 7ths, dominant 7ths, mixolydian scales, working on left hand fret positioning, right hand attack and wrist positioning. The whole thing. So now my knowledge is opening up my playing, but my playing (IMHO) seems to be getting worse.. What the heck is up with that?? Any pointers? I am probably overthinking now on stage, but my 3 guitarists are all music teachers, so there is a little pressure to know what I am playing and not just be able to play. But is really seems to be messing with my playing.... Any tips would be cool!

Next step: take all that new theory and technique stuff and put it up on a shelf. Don't worry; it'll always be there. Now immerse yourself in listening and practicing MUSIC. Listen and learn lines from a variety of artists and genres. Listen to and learn baritone sax and trombone solos. All that theory will apply. But, when all is said and done, hold down the bottom with feeling and heart. No amount of theory practing will give you that. Heck... Kenny G does nothing but play scales on all his tunes. Anybody can do that. His music sucks...he just makes more money playing scales than anyone else.

Spin Doctor · #18 03-02-2011, 11:59 AM

Ahh, ok got it. My bad. Yeah I feel ya on that one. I don't wanna do that either. So tell them...

When my bandmates try to get me to do stuff I don't wanna do, (like sing more) I just say, Naah, not doing that and just keep doing what I do. They get over it soon enough...