Right Hand -- Finger Players, help.

chaotick · #1 08-15-2006, 10:30 PM

I'd like to start off with a hello, this being my first post and all; So... Hi.

I am kind of at an impasse with my right hand. I am moving along at a good pace when I practice, but I have just found need to play faster. My bandmates would like me to play heavy metal.

I am comfortable with all my fingers, but not extremely efficient with four yet; Damn, stubborn pinky!

I actually made a video, hosted here to demonstrate what I can do reasonably well. It's just under a minute and what you will see [respectively] in the video is the following:

1 Finger And "Alternate Finger-Picking"

2 Fingers

3 Fingers and Gallop

[Discreet horns]

1,2,3,4 -- All Fingers

And finally, a motion that I made up:
Pinky, Ring, Middle, Index, Index, Ring, Middle, Index [start-over]
I find it can produce good results with some of the strange rhythms I play. [and looks complex too!]

I guess I need to know, when it comes right down to it, what should I focus on to be able to play fast, as far as right hand technique goes.

Constructive criticism is very welcome and appreciated.

PrimusNut · #2 08-15-2006, 10:44 PM

I didnt watch the video as i have dial up.. but have you ever heard of Billy Sheehan? He plays extremely fast with just 3 fingers (R-M-I). Is it metal you are going to play or shred metal? For just heavy metal 2 fingers is sufficient (Cliff Burton only used 2 fingers, and listen to (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth, thats fast for 2 fingers). If you want to play like Billy then 3 or 4 fingers.

chaotick · #3 08-15-2006, 10:48 PM

Yeah, I don't worship Sheehan but I have definitely been influenced from what I have seen him do in his playing.

I love to watch John Myung but can't even fathom getting to his level, he is a very sick bassist.

BTW: The movie is a 4.7mb .mov on my computer and I am sure YouTube compressed it further; I tried to keep it kind of small for people that may have dial-up.

Warwick19 · #4 08-15-2006, 11:03 PM

I have quite a few suggestions which might help. 1) try and play with your forearm somewhat off of the bass so that you aren't putting pressure on the tendons in your right arm. 2) keep your fingers a little bit straighter 3) scrap the pinky, it is not practical (as it is far to short). 4) Work with ring and middle using a metronome. 5) If you would like, practice using 2nd and 3rd, and first and 3rd fingers so that if you were to loose a callus you could play a show minus any of the three fingers. 6) Work on three finger technique NOT TRIPPLETS until you can play steadily to a metronome in 16ths. My preference is 123212321232 for sixteenths and perhaps 123,123,123 for tripplets. Jon myung does it 321,321,321 (i see you made reference to him) so try it that way if you like, i find it much less versitile when switching from two to three and vice versa. Lastly a caution, make sure that you can play quick tripplets with only two fingers, it is easy to use three fingers as a crutch (i did for a while without realizing it).

Warwick19 · #5 08-15-2006, 11:09 PM

Ah and primusnut i disagree, 3/4 fingers is not necessarily any faster than two, its just easier to cop out and play mindless 16ths going pinky - ring. It just takes more practice to do it with two, but i think it is more rewarding. (not at all a fan of billy heh)

PrimusNut · #6 08-16-2006, 12:54 PM

I didnt say it is not possible.. But If you want to play like Billy than don't you agree 3 fingers is better than 2 for that? Sure, i can play reasonably fast with 2, and have never had the need to play with 3. I didnt say its not possible.

iplaybassguitar · #7 08-16-2006, 03:37 PM

i personally in my music dont see the need for going past two fingers...and i understand why some people move to three, but four fingers???unless your playing like fingerstyle stuff like with your thumb like ramp players...that seems pointless.

acutally, i see the point, but music like that has to be boring to play and listen to doesnt it? just bludgeoning the hell out of a string for speed?

iplaybassguitar · #8 08-16-2006, 03:38 PM

i personally in my music dont see the need for going past two fingers...and i understand why some people move to three, but four fingers???unless your playing like fingerstyle stuff like with your thumb like ramp players...that seems pointless.

acutally, i see the point, but music like that has to be boring to play and listen to doesnt it? just bludgeoning the hell out of a string for speed?

iplaybassguitar · #9 08-16-2006, 03:39 PM

my bad...i didnt mean to post two

Erick Lam · #10 08-16-2006, 05:28 PM

Why do you lift your fingers so far from the strings? I suggest practicing the right hand #1 and #2 exercises on the link below. It works for 2 or 3 fingers. Keep the fingers on the strings. No need to practice this fast, but mute fast. As soon as you mute, you're ready to pluck again.

http://garywillis.com/pages/lessons/lessmain.html

Warwick19 · #11 08-16-2006, 07:57 PM

Mm i didnt notice that, nice call Erick. General technique is to fall thru to the next string lower, when you go fast though this isnt always prudent. Neither the left nor right hands' fingers can afford to move far from their strings.

Erick Lam · #12 08-17-2006, 12:15 AM

I follow thru to the next string, even at high speed. Here Chaotick lifts his fingers way up in the air before plucking.

Chao, no need to swing those fingers up high. You're not planting nails, just making a little string move. You get speed with accuracy and efficiency, not by forcing it.

BrandonBass · #13 08-17-2006, 12:25 AM

Some people just wanna go fast, I dont see whats wrong with that as long as you have the basics down.

Actually 2fingers is sufficient for shredding, 3fingers only make it less tiring. Victor Wooten, Jaco and Juan Alderete all uses 2fingers are they are pretty damn fast

heres a vid of john playing with racer x, tell me thats not fast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isFPCMAcPZM

Poop-Loops · #14 08-17-2006, 12:56 AM

The pinky really can't be used for plucking. It's like trying to run by adding in an arm to the mix. More =/= better. If your pinky was the size of any other 3 fingers, then you'd have something to work with. But seriously, just look at it. It's really not worth the effort.

Because you'll need a LOT of effort, and won't get much in return.

EDIT: I just watched the video. Try using a metronome. I bet it won't be much fun. If you have to use 4, then try adding your thumb. I've actually seen that successfully done. But the pinky? Eh...

Kronos · #15 08-17-2006, 01:48 AM

Definitely work with a metronome. You don't need 4 fingers to be fast. I rarely use 3. I also play with my bass lower than what you have (I rest it in between my legs instead of on my right leg like most people do), so my arm isn't resting on my bass. I don't have my bass at my knees as is so popular today, but I also don't jack it to my nips.

What type of metal do they want you to play? There are some types where you can get away with halving the time, so as the guitar is chugging for let's say 4 64th notes, you could play 2 32nds...if you catch my drift.

ratamahatta · #16 08-17-2006, 02:10 AM

hey man, i watched ur video,
can u move faster than that? before adding more fingers id master 2 or 3

i get a lot of commonets after shows about my right hand speed, honestly when i first started playing id just play along w/ iron maide, the trooper helped a lot with my ring finger,

once u get a little more speed u can machine gu w/ just 3 and ull never need to consider the pinky, just sit there and play and play until ure forarm is buring, then wait a tic and do it again, after a while ull get used to it and itll be cake

Bman83 · #17 08-17-2006, 02:12 AM

I'm seeing a lot of different advice here from a lot of different people who abviously have many different style. That's not a bad thing. But it might not be the best thing either. Over my years of playing I've heard a lot things from many bass players saying to play something this way and that way. I took it all seriously, but never incorporated it into my playing. I found what worked for me, whether look or sound like crap to some one else, and I made it work for me. I say, do whatever you wanna do. Play with 2 fingers, 3, play with a damn turkey leg, who cares.

Erick Lam · #18 08-17-2006, 02:49 AM

That is very, very useful advice, Bman. I want lessons.

lemur821 · #19 08-17-2006, 05:08 AM

Unless you feel like you're having a lot of success with your four-finger method, it might be better to stick with two. It works pretty well, and you can go a long way with it. It's hard to imagine needing to go faster than two fingers can.

spindizzy · #20 08-17-2006, 06:15 AM

If you want to employ 4 fingers on the right incorporate your thumb not your pinky. As someone else pointed out before the pinky is not, for most people, long enough to position properly in relation to your other fingers. But by using your thumb (ala a classical guitar approach) you can easily use four fingers. I do this but I will tell you that the thumb works best when you are using it to cross strings and let your index, middle and ring do most of the work. This of course requires you to also learn how to float your thumb rather than anchor it on the pickup or thumb rest.