Right hand fingers get stiff live

[jvalenzh]

Hi,

At high energy live shows my right hand fingers start getting stiff and they don't respond to the speed or groove I need to play. It's very frustrating. This never happens while I practice. Maybe it has something to do with the excitement going on while playing live. Does anyone know the cause, and better yet a solution?

Thanks!

Javier.

[maturanesa]

Try to focus on light your touch at that moment. That will naturally produce some relax for the fingers...

[jvalenzh]

Thank you! I'll keep that in mind.

[Fergie Fulton]

Fatigue and Diet

So for endurance what you need is 'food for the muscles' in the hands and arms. Since using the hands extensively does not raise the heart rate, so increase the blood flow to the muscles bringing them much needed energy then the energy to fuel the muscle must come from somewhere else. In other word you do not get out of breath using your hands so it is not an aerobic use, it is an anaerobic use.

So lots of water, stay hydrated, not with energy drinks, energy drinks are an instant short lived boost what we need is good long term slow release foods. All that means is food that releases a steady stream of energy over time, not a big short term boost, that frankly when used will see us crave another one....eventually. They are good for a top up but not for the source of the energy.

To function properly, in life as well as in playing,we all need energy. Our fuel comes from a combinations of the quality of our breathing and the food we eat, but not all foods are the energy rich sources we need. Remember in playing, there is a certain mental stress that happens, it may not be visible or we may not even be aware of it, but it is there. The body prepares for the coming task in many ways from anxiety, nervousness etc, to elation and joy. On stage we perspire more than normal, especially forces perspiration as under heavy lights. This drains our energy, it drains our body of much needed salts and minerals, so it is no wonder that sometimes we suffer fatigue.

Fatigue, lethargy and depression can occur due to deficient energy in the body and low blood sugar levels. Excess energy intake, because we normally play at nights if way to much may induce restless or broken sleep, which again adds to the problems. So having a good balanced diet makes it easier, as does eating the correct foods in the correct amounts before playing. So rather than a burger and a few beers try and find better foods to help give a balanced source of energy.

Vegetables –
Green Vegetables contain vitamins and minerals including vitamin B, magnesium and iron. E.g. Sprouts, Broccoli, Asparagus, and Spinach. Other vegetables also give you an energy boost. Carrots, potatoes and other vegetables are full of vitamins and nutrients and they can raise your blood sugar because they are digested and quickly absorbed in the bloodstream. These energy-giving foods are good for you and contain such vitamins as Vitamin A, Vitamin C, folic acid and potassium. Green Parsley leaves have lots of vitamin C and boosts cell regeneration helping the body get more energy, chewing on them will help reduce breath orders as it has great neutralising chemicals in it.....it will help with things like 'garlic breath, smokers or beer breath'.
Eggs –
Eggs are a great source of energy, and supply a high amount of protein. Protein is vital in almost every bodily function, and most people experience better energy levels when consuming a good source of protein at every meal. Eggs are considered a complete protein.
Cereals –
Cereals such as Shredded Wheat, Corn Flakes or oatmeal are great foods that can give you a lift. These cereals tend to be digested slowly so they give an extended release, and help to keep your blood sugar level stable. Adding fresh fruit to the mix will also provide a steady release of glucose, keeping your body fueled and your brain alert throughout the day. Oats are the best head start you can give your body every day! Oats are low on the glycemic index as they contain a lot of fiber, which means that your body gets a steady stream of energy. They also contain energizing and stress-reducing B vitamins that help to break down carbohydrates into usable energy.
Fruits –
Fruits are a food group that guarantees an energy intake due to the fructose level and the vitamins they all carry, particularly Vitamin C. The most energizing fruit are grapes, peaches and citrus fruit due to their high fructose content, as well as bananas, watermelon, oranges, mangoes, dates, pineapple, cranberries and papaya.
Seeds –
Most of the seeds such as sunflower and pumpkin are very rich in proteins and minerals and their presence in a person’s nutrition is an important source of energy. They are also a source of magnesium and iron. The polyunsaturated fats they contain are benefit for the cardiovascular system and help the blood flow to the heart and brain.
Nuts –
All nuts from peanuts to pistachio are an excellent source of minerals with a high nutrition factor. They contain vitamins A, B and E, potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and iron. They fight against anemia and bring the body durable energy.
Fruit smoothies and shakes –
The smart combination of fruit juice and milk is always a source of energy. The combination of vitamins and calcium increases the body’s energetic potential and it is also a very refreshing helping hand when you get extra tired while working.
Green tea –
Green Tea is a source of antioxidants and an important resource of energy for the entire body.
Honey –
a fantastic source of energy
Beans and lentils-
These are a great source of potassium and carbohydrates. Lentils are a great source of both carbohydrate and protein. They are also high in B vitamins, iron, magnesium, potassium, zinc, calcium and copper. Lentils are also low in fat and calories.

So in short help your body and give your muscles a chance to work at full potential. One of the reasons for pain, cramp, tiredness, is your bodies way of reducing the stress it is coming under through lack of energy. So to prevent damage and injury, it will slow down the use to ease the person away from that level of use, or introduce pain to stop the use immediately if it feels damage will occur. So in short you body will protect itself from you, what you have to do is listen to it and learn to maximise those shut down levels.
Warm ups and stretches before and after use will always help, and over three sets you have breaks, use then to re- hydrate and replace lost energy, minerals and salts.

A note about Potassium;
Potassium must be rightly included in your daily diet to reduce the risk of heart attacks and blood pressure problems.
Potassium is a good source of cramp prevention and relief.
Sufficient potassium can be consumed by including the potassium rich foods in our daily diet.
Potassium rich foods are listed below and are categorized according to the fruits, vegetables, dairy products and other potassium rich foods.
Proper amount of potassium must be included in food.
There are two main problems associated with Potassium levels that can develop, hyperkalemia or hypokalemia.
Hyperkalemia is excessive storage of potassium and hypokalemia is deficiency of potassium.
A balanced diet should be enough to sustain a healthy Potassium and vitamin level as well as most of the chemical elements the body needs so see a doctor or nutritionist if you have recurring problems, it may be linked to your diet as well as your life style. Here are foods noted for being Potassium rich;

VEGETABLES ;
Artichoke
Acorn squash
Baked beans
Butternut squash
Bamboo shoots
Fresh or boiled beet
Black beans
Lima beans
Cabbage
Brussels sprouts
Carrots
Dried peas and beans
Hubbard squash
Lentils
Legumes
Mushrooms
Turnip cabbage
Pumpkin
Potatoes
Parsnips
Refried beans
Cooked spinach
Tomatoes and tomato products
Yellow turnips
Vegetable juices
Lettuce
Kidney beans
Cauliflower
Broccoli

FRUITS;
Apple
Apricots
Avocado
Cantaloupe
Bananas
Dates
Figs
Kiwi fruit
Mango
Orange and orange juice
Papaya
Peach
Strawberries
Watermelon juices
Raisins
Prunes and prune juice
Pear
Nectarines
Honeydew
Grapefruit
Pomegranate

MEAT AND FISH;
Beef
Chicken
Lamb
Pork
Liver
Turkey
Veal
Bass
Flounder
Haddock
Halibut
Oysters
Perch
Salmon
Scallops
Tuna

BEVERAGES/DRINKS;
Beer
Red wine
White wine
Cider

MISCELLANEOUS FOODS;
Bran products
Chocolate
Granola
Molasses
Milk
Nuts and seeds
Peanut Butter
Yogurt
Peanuts
Ice milk
Eggs
Wheat bread
Apple cider vinegar
Cottage cheese
Ricotta cheese
Vanilla Ice-cream
Cinnamon raisin bagel
Plain bagel
French bread
Plain bagel
Onion, poppy and sesame seed bagel
Oatmeal bread
English muffins
Cocoa powder

Any questions this post has raised, please post here and I will try and answer them if I can.

[jvalenzh]

Thank you very much. That all makes sense. I will take it into account.

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by maturanesa

Try to focus on light your touch at that moment. That will naturally produce some relax for the fingers...

+1

absolutely! (just keep reminding yourself)

[jvalenzh]

Thanks pacojas! That actually seems like a good solution. We probably get too excited on stage and over-do it playing hard, therefore wearing out the fingers. I'll compensate with more volume and remember to play softer.

[Joedog]

I'll over do it at times when I can't hear myself well. Getting the cab up (closer to the ears), and a proper EQ (usually with my rig this means cutting the lows and boosting the mids a bit) almost always sovles the problem. If I can hear myself well, I don't feel the need to play hard, and relax more.

[atomicdog]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Fatigue and Diet

So for endurance what you need is 'food for the muscles' in the hands and arms. Since using the hands extensively does not raise the heart rate, so increase the blood flow to the muscles bringing them much needed energy then the energy to fuel the muscle must come from somewhere else. In other word you do not get out of breath using your hands so it is not an aerobic use, it is an anaerobic use. . . .

That's a post and half. Of course, the dietary suggestions won't hurt but probably won't help as much as warm-up exercises and the tip on staying loose (try occasional hand massage and warm compresses as well). Tension is the biggest killer, not cinnamon/raisin bagels.

[carlthegroover]

Considering we all live through different live experiences, I've realized that I try to pluck way harder live than when rehearsing, just so I get some attack (and be heard out of the mix); this tires my fingers fast and makes me sloppy, plus I really achieve nothing in terms of attack anyways.
However, I just found out that if I only play with the very tips of the fingers not only am I faster, I can play lighter because this way the playing has some added attack (probably due to a slight contact of the tips of the nails). I'm trying to incorporate this technique every time I play, and it usually works.

Maybe this is what you are doing to, perhaps subconsciouly? Or maybe it is just the stress... or both.

[FretNoMore]

My hands sometimes cramp up at the end of a night's playing. I believe it's from two things; tension - I have to work on playing as relaxed as possible - and dehydration, I sweat like a pig if the room is warm and under the lights on stage. Keep the hands as relaxed as possible, move the fingers a bit between songs, maybe set the amp louder and play with a lighter touch, drink lots of water.

[ngh]

It sounds to me like you just need to relax. take a shot! have a beer! just feel the music and let your hands do the work. i find that if i feel like my hand is cramping (or something similar) up on stage and i focus on it, it just gets worse. it's like curing the hiccups, as soon as you stop thinking about trying to get rid of them they go away and you never realize when they stopped. when stuff like that starts to go wrong up on stage just focus on getting into the vibe instead of fixing the problem. the problem will fix itself.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by atomicdog

That's a post and half. Of course, the dietary suggestions won't hurt but probably won't help as much as warm-up exercises and the tip on staying loose (try occasional hand massage and warm compresses as well). Tension is the biggest killer, not cinnamon/raisin bagels.

Of course there are many things that contrbute towards reducing playing issues, it is not my job to highlight them all, especially with in a post that is long enough just dealing with diet.

The info supplied by the OP suggests he does not have the energy to carry on his hand use, so the hand cramps/hardens the muscles in the forearm and slow the use down to match the energy available.
Other parts of the body need that energy and fuel not just the hand, the muscles that hold our posture need fuel for us to stand for example.

Tension is the effect we see, the root cause can be various things but bad diet and lack of hydration cause more "tension" related issues than say not warming up.
Based on the common 3-3-3 rule we can survive 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.....but i am sure we can survive a lifetime without warm-ups.

Since we all have to eat and drink then and there is no extra effort in choosing what to eat, why not choose to eat foods that support our playing?

Here are some links to stretches and exercises,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab-dtzrAnkg&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_FZichHw1w&sns=em

http://youtu.be/npti40xgb84

[InternetAlias]

Make sure you hear yourself loud enough. If you don't you'll always dig really hard. Let your amp do the job. Digging deep will always result in sore fingers if you don't do it intentionally.

[thunderstation]

the same thing used to happen to me - I'm pretty sure it was due to when I practiced I don't play nearly as hard or as quickly as i do when I play with the band - Then I realised it didn't happen after i had been playing with the band about 45 minutes.- so I just did some simple excersizes while everyone was setting up(particularly the drummer)- I just played runs and kept alternating the fingers of my right hand - slow at first and quickening the pace as i went along - usually less than 5 minutes -
anyway that seemed to work for me -

[jvalenzh]

Thanks everyone! All very good tips. I do sweat like a pig on stage so I probably need to be very well hydrated. I also try to over-do the energy at shows for the visual impression. And finally, I do play harder to hear myself better.

So, I guess the conclusion is to stay hydrated, play relaxed feeling the vibe, and crank the amp so I can play softer. Also some warm-ups.

Thanks again!

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by jvalenzh

Thanks everyone! All very good tips. I do sweat like a pig on stage so I probably need to be very well hydrated. I also try to over-do the energy at shows for the visual impression. And finally, I do play harder to hear myself better.

So, I guess the conclusion is to stay hydrated, play relaxed feeling the vibe, and crank the amp so I can play softer. Also some warm-ups.

Thanks again!

I would say that the over sweating is a factor, but not all of it but does this a sound familiar situation..... Wake up in the morning, eat breakfast, then work, eat lunch, then work, get home and maybe eat or not depending on situation, rush out to gig, set up and get ready to play.

Now that alone is a day of energy being used, so after a long day when its time to wind the body down and prepare to sleep, we as musicians go and play.
We add an extra layer or physical use to our already tired bodies, so it is no wonder it fights back.
Cramp put limitations on our movements that could damage us, it is the bodies way of warning us it is "shutting down and reducing the use of certain systems" so they do not get damaged.
Injuries from over-use and mis-use are common and what made them injuries in the first place is usually the pushing past the limit a tired or fatigued muscle group or joint by ignoring the warnings, by believing in "no pain no gain".

So common sense would state that here you are late in the evening, going on to get more use from your body, but now you are doing it under hot lights, using a very tiresome hand use, holding a heavy instrument, with little thought to hydration and food to fuel this use, then you will suffer more than you would if say it was early morning when you are mentally fresh and physically rested after a nights sleep.

Also not hearing your sound can be partly a concentration thing, again tired, hungry, and thirsty will affect your ability to concentrate and execute what you want to do. You can learn to hear your bass better by concentrating better on it if you wish.

As i have said many things contribute to playing issues, but diet and hydration should not really be one as we have to eat and drink anyway, so why not choose to eat and drink in a way that supports our playing.
On gigs that means eating food regular through the night, so energy foods snacked on if you will, light but regular eating, bananas are great as a complete food, but nuts, chocolate etc are good for a boost.
Energy drinks are great for a boost as well as are shakes and fruits...all can be eating before during and after a gig...remember you have to replace the energy used so after show food, warm downs are as important.

[FretNoMore]

I bring fruit and chocolate bars to gigs and eat some between sets, an hour on stage takes quite a lot out of the body even if I don't jump around much.

[jvalenzh]

I'll start bringing some snacks to gigs. Thanks guys!

[rtav]

We play a lot of stuff that is extremely fast for long periods, mostly Dream Theater covers. Since I play mostly with two fingers, my right hand would run out of gas... for instance, just before the bass solo in DT's "Ytse Jam," there is an extremely fast section leading up to an even faster bass solo. My hand would be exhausted halfway through the solo and cramp horribly. I can suggest a few things that made a HUGE difference for me:

1. Travel. If you rest your thumb on a string or pickup or whatever, be sure that the distance between your plucking finger and your resting thumb is as close as possible. For instance, if you're playing something fast on the A and D strings, rest your thumb on the E - not the pickup. The little bit of extra distance can make a big difference.
2. Light touch (as has been mentioned above). You may need to use a compressor to smooth out the volume (I do), but try to play as light as you can and make a mental note to not "dig in" too much before a fast section. Make your equipment do the work of getting loud, not your right hand.
3. Conserve as much energy as you can in your right hand. I developed a technique of playing very fast with one finger, my right index or my right middle finger, back and forth across the string as if I was using a pick. I'll use one finger, switch the the other, rest the first finger and then switch back and forth as needed. Plus, I will sometimes use my right ring finger to play rather simpler quarter notes as often as possible to avoid using my main playing (index, middle) fingers unnecessarily.

I am trying to work my right ring finger into the mix, but the results have been spotty (due mostly to my lack of dedication in practicing that way); but until the day comes that I can play fluidly with three fingers, I will work on reducing travel, playing with a lighter touch, and resting my main playing fingers as much as possible.

Good luck!