Right hand forearm resting.

[parmezans]

A lot of players rest their right forearm on the body. How do they do that and don't get hurt? The body applies pressure to the forearm... mine hurts and I didn't know what I was doing wrong because there is no pain when I keep my hand in the given wrist position, until I just set my forearm on the bass and it hurt.

[FretlessMainly]

I avoid resting my right arm on the bass for three reasons:

1. It can restrict bloodflow to the arm leading either to quicker onset of fatigue or possibly injury;
2. Resting the arm forces the right wrist out of a neutral position when playing pizzicato style; and
3. Getting my right elbow out and away from the bass gets my right hand right on top of the strings which translates to more power and more control.

The only parts of my right arm and hand that touch the bass are the tip of my thimb on a thumb anchor point and the tips of my fingers on the strings.

[lowendgenerator]

Try moving your right elbow out a bit when you play. It takes your forearm off the bass, and straightens your wrist. Might also want to analyze the height of your bass. Too high or too low, even though it looks cool, is taxing on the wrists.

[Skitch it!]

Bring your elbow forward 45 degrees (4-6 inches say) and play with a straighter forearm, the tendons and wrist angle will straighten out. You play a little more from the shoulder so to speak.

[parmezans]

But I'm used to this style of playing, and my bass is quite high right now because I only play while sitting on a bed. It's hard to raise your elbow when your bass is that high or you are sitting. I see many players play like I play, that's the point. How do they manage?

[lowendgenerator]

Originally Posted by parmezans

But I'm used to this style of playing, and my bass is quite high right now because I only play while sitting on a bed. It's hard to raise your elbow when your bass is that high or you are sitting. I see many players play like I play, that's the point. How do they manage?

It's not about raising the elbow, it's about keeping your forearm parallel to the top of the bass. Even with my wrist up under my chin, rotating my elbow out relieves the strain.

How do other people manage it? They're built differently. Just cause Thayer can do it doesn't make it right, or safe.

[fearceol]

If your arm hurts then obviously there is a problem. It is for each person to find a technique that is both safe and comfortable for themselves. Everyone is different, so maybe you should take some of the advice given so far and experiment. Better, and safer than playing through pain.

[parmezans]

Ok, thank you for your advice people. I'll try playing with my elbow rotated up a bit more, but my shoulder starts hurting in a "I worked out with weights for 3 sets" way after a few minutes.

[Fergie Fulton]

What model of bass are you using? Some models are better suited that others to accommodate resting the arm on them or along them.
Point of note is that the elbow movement comes from the forearm, not from using the shoulders or neck. If you try to hold the elbow with the shoulder the rotor cuff takes the strain, and so to counter that the neck and shoulder tense to off-set this action. So focus on keeping the shoulders down and relaxed and control the elbow position from the forearm.....that is why the forearm sits or hugs the bass.

[parmezans]

Squier Standard Jazz (I love it, I can't get enough of that sound, I'm so lucky to get such a high quality instrument for so little cash. They're not consistent with these basses, so I got really lucky. I tried many other basses and none can beat this for now. )
If I keep my shoulder down that means that the bass is set pretty low. Like, around or below my belly button. That makes my right hand technique ****. :|

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by parmezans

I'll try playing with my elbow rotated up a bit more, but my shoulder starts hurting in a "I worked out with weights for 3 sets" way after a few minutes.

That's muscle fatigue pain, which is a sign that you need to keep at this a bit more each time. Let it recover and then build it up - just like lifting weights.

I realize that pain isn't usually a positive thing, but there's "good" pain and "bad" pain, and what you describe is more good than bad. Cutting off circulation and having a non-neutral wrist position will cause bad pain.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by parmezans

Squier Standard Jazz (I love it, I can't get enough of that sound, I'm so lucky to get such a high quality instrument for so little cash. They're not consistent with these basses, so I got really lucky. I tried many other basses and none can beat this for now. )
If I keep my shoulder down that means that the bass is set pretty low. Like, around or below my belly button. That makes my right hand technique ****. :|

No probs with the Squier then. Keeping your shoulders down has nothing to do with bass height, that is a straps job. Shoulders down means you keep them dropped. Try this for the feeling. Shrug your shoulders........then relax, shrug them again, then relax. Now when you next shrug them hold it shrug them even more....feel like your neck is disappearing in to your body. Then relax them, then push them down even more,really drop your shoulders down. Now that is not forward and down but back and down, so pull your shoulders back then drop them.

Most people retain a certain amount of shoulder/ neck tension because they lift their shoulders, it is a sub-conscious thing and yes players will do it and retain it as a habit. Hopefully the shoulder shrugs will remind you that yes you can lift your shoulders further if you want to and of course you can drop them more if you need to. Dropped shoulders mean relaxed muscles as it takes muscle tension to lift/raise them am
Nd of course to hold them there. This is why it feels sore and why it feels like reps.

[parmezans]

Ahhhh! I see! So I need to rotate my elbow counter clockwise from my current painful position. My god, what a difference. My shoulder is more relieved now than while playing by actually raising the shoulder upwards to get that 90 degree angle on the picking hand, that's what I was doing. Man, it's a different feel all together now. Thank you!

[lowendgenerator]

Originally Posted by parmezans

Ahhhh! I see! So I need to rotate my elbow counter clockwise from my current painful position. My god, what a difference. My shoulder is more relieved now than while playing by actually raising the shoulder upwards to get that 90 degree angle on the picking hand, that's what I was doing. Man, it's a different feel all together now. Thank you!

Bass playing is so much more enjoyable when you're comfortable.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by parmezans

Ahhhh! I see! So I need to rotate my elbow counter clockwise from my current painful position. My god, what a difference. My shoulder is more relieved now than while playing by actually raising the shoulder upwards to get that 90 degree angle on the picking hand, that's what I was doing. Man, it's a different feel all together now. Thank you!

Now you're getting there, point of fact that got missed because i was trying to work from an ipad with the TalkBass app. ( what a pain and it crashes...lots), is that in the shoulder shrugs each time you relax the shoulders return to neutral position. So when you push down and relax the shoulders raise, and when you are lifted up and relax, the shoulders drop. This is not a concious effort, you do not use any effort to help them return, you just release the muscle group from its tension. Muscles work in pairs, so they always pull, so when you relax it is the shoulder dropping under its own weight so to speak, not the opposite muscle groups pulling the back. That's why you were asked to go further on each movement to feel and understand what relaexed feels like.

One point to watch for is that raising of the shoulders, its hard not to do because a player is not really aware of it. Along with slow deep breathing a player can stay relaxed and focused because the urge to look at your hands fretting will cause you to raise your shoulders slightly to look or admire your finger work, or to look down at your plucking hand when learning to see what strings you are playing. in advanced players things such as learning forward to read sheets, or sitting on the wrong typ of seat, cramped in to a pit, a playing area that's tight etc, will all add tension and that will lead to the shoulders being raised. These are slight movements that raise the shoulders, but they will add to the need to "lift the shoulders" forward" rather than back.
So consider the shoulder shrugs routine as an exercise/stretch to help counter it.

As for the bass, i had a MM fiver that hurt me, so i sanded off the edge and made it more for me.



In the picture you can just see the crescent shape colour under my forearm of where i kept on sanding it till it was suited to me. In the end the crescent shape ( crescent because of the angle that you view it and its position on the bass) became larger as i sanded more away. Eventully it became very rounded and sloped back all most like a Fender so my arm ran along it more than it sat on it.
Your forearm just needs a point of resistance, this point can be ON OR AGAINST the bass, but what you can never see is how much pressure is being used...if any at all.
Remember a bass is a tool so you can alter it to suit you rather than suffer with it. I later sold that bass and had four buyers interested because it was more comfortable than a standard MM.

Anyone have any questions this has raised, post them here or drop me a PM and i will see if i can answer them

[DeadHeadSF]

I'm a bit concerned with ergonomics and finding a "neutral" position due to having had problems with RSI and a bad shoulder. So, the position I've found that works best for me is to do the following:

1) adjust strap so the bass is at the same height when sitting or standing
2) keep the neck up (so we're at about a 30-40 degree angle - similar to how a classical guitarist holds their instrument)
3) When playing seated, I rest the bass on my left leg instead of right (right-handed player), again "classical-guitar-style". This also involves using a foot stool or other support to raise my left leg.

I've found by doing these 3 things, I can minimize bending my wrists and resting my arm on the bass. I play fenders, so my arm does lay against the body of the bass, but only very lightly, and it moves freely. At all times, my right wrist is straight. The left wrist is usually straight (or as straight as possible, depending where I am on the fretboard).

The 30-40 degree angle puts the bass at just the right angle to get the best sound when finger picking. I lower the angle to around 30 degrees when playing with a pick and bring it closer to 40 degrees when finger picking.

Due to my shoulder problems, this position helps keep the load off my shoulder as well (more a function of strap height) so that I'm not pulling it forward (bass is too low) or yanking it up and back (bass is too high or at a bad angle to the body).

Neutral positioning is not only critically important for preventing RSI injury (which CAN be permanent and, if it's bad enough, can prevent you from ever playing again), but also allows for a very relaxed playing style. Any time you're putting an awkward bend in something, you're putting tension in it as well.

Experiment a bit - everyone's constructed differently.

Just my $0.02.

[parmezans]

I'm trying my best to experiment, but I'm awkward as it is, I'm a very tense person. It's hard to loosen up.

[hernameisrio]

I'm the same way AND I have a bad shoulder too. When I first started playing, I spent quite a while looking in the mirror and playing, even taking a video of myself, making sure that it felt and looked comfortable and natural. Believe it or not, if you're doing something to strain yourself, if you play while looking in the mirror, it'll be a lot more obvious...whereas if you can't see what you look like while you're playing, you might not notice right away. I don't really get the whole forearm-resting thing because on both my basses, it just doesn't seem necessary to me since the bodies are smaller, the size of a guitar, really. I've SLIGHTLY changed the angle of my right arm over the past few months as I've begun learning to slap (I hold my arm a tiny bit more vertical than diagonal), but if my forearm is too vertical, I start to hunch my shoulder. Not only that, but then I DROP my left shoulder slightly to compensate, and then not only does it look stupid, but it feels uncomfortable! :lol:

Try a few different positions, because you never know what you'll settle into. The way I'm built, "one size fits all" doesn't tend to fit me. I am almost 5'6 and about 95 pounds, but somehow despite not being that tall, I have kinda long arms for my size and big hands. I tend to forget that I'm considerably smaller than most adults. I spent an entire snowboarding season on a board that was way too long for me because I bought it based on my height and not my weight, for example.

Heck, I was ready to give up on learning to play drums because my teacher insisted on my playing open-handed (I'm right-handed, so, right arm hits the snare, left arm hits the hi-hat) and my left shoulder is still weaker than my right and kinda fragile, so I never felt or sounded as good as I wanted to even after really working on it. Finally I said screw it and switched back to crossing my arms over each other, which made it easier to hit the hi-hat consistently with my left arm. I haven't played in a while, but when I do, I feel more like myself and not like I'm fighting the instrument.

The "rules" don't always apply. I'll never forget the first time I tried my snowboard set up in the "goofy" stance, with my right leg forward and my left leg behind me, which is supposed to be for left-handed people (at least that's usually the case). Since my left LEG is also weaker than my right (yeah, it kinda sucks ), I would have trouble turning when I first started out. So when my feet were switched to the goofy/opposite-footed stance and I was able to lean on my stronger leg to turn, I was amazed at how much better it felt. I haven't gone boarding in years but I will probably leave my bindings this way.

There is nothing worse than not being able to accomplish a physical task because of various things which might limit you- size, injuries, etc. And there is nothing better than figuring out a way that works for you.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I carry all my tension in my shoulders and neck, especially my trapezius muscles. Stretch them out before you even pick up your bass to play...it will help loosen up your wrists. Also, sometimes when my left hand starts to cramp, I rotate my thumb so that it's slightly more parallel to the neck or I lift it off the neck completely just to take a rest. It is possible to subtly alter your posture without looking like you have a twitch!

[DeadHeadSF]

Originally Posted by hernameisrio

Oh yeah, one more thing. I carry all my tension in my shoulders and neck, especially my trapezius muscles. Stretch them out before you even pick up your bass to play...it will help loosen up your wrists. Also, sometimes when my left hand starts to cramp, I rotate my thumb so that it's slightly more parallel to the neck or I lift it off the neck completely just to take a rest. It is possible to subtly alter your posture without looking like you have a twitch!

+1 on all of this including using a mirror.

Stretching and deep breathing exercises are a fantastic way to get started - it really makes a difference. I also play the flute, and I've found that without doing stretches and breathing exercises before playing, I have much more tension.

It may be 50% physical preparation and 50% state of mind preparation...

[major10th]

I also rest my forearm on the bass (97 jazz bass) and while I'm currently not having any pain, one thing this does is counteract neck dive. When I try to play without my forearm anchored on the bass body, the neck dive tends to make the fretting hand start to support some of the weight of the bass. So I'm still wrestling with just how to make the suggested adjustments.