role of bass in a power trio

behemecoytl · #1 09-23-2010, 08:54 AM

All my band experience has been in a 5 peice cover band and i've been more of a hold-it-down groove player. Now i've moved to a new town and i'm in a new band: a basic power trio... and at our rehersals, i notice those big spaces that used to be filled by keys and horns. do i need to compensate a little and expand my parts? or is the power trio characterized by minimalism?

(or should we get some keys and horns? hehehe... would be nice, but it's a small town... )

pharmakon · #2 09-23-2010, 09:05 AM

My suggestion would be to listen to more trios and focus on what the bass player is doing. The Police, Rush, the Tea Party are just a few that come to mind. Maybe find some that are specific to your genre.

disp · #3 09-23-2010, 09:05 AM

Yes, it's time to get busy. The song will dictate your approach but generally speaking you need to make things a little more interesting. If there's vocals you can still lay back at times but in the absence of a vocalist the focus turns mostly to musicianship.

MNAirHead · #4 09-23-2010, 09:08 AM

Commonly helps to hold longer notes.... synchopated grooves in conjunction with the drummer fill space - overplaying is a distraction.

Overall.. your first priority is power singing - this is what your audience pays attention to.

Your front guy needs (more than a full band) a predictable foundation.. the more predictable you are, the easier time they have sitting back and/or filling in.

Early Stevie Ray Vaughn was a good example of a planned trio.

Tim

T.A.P Bass · #5 09-23-2010, 09:11 AM

Definately expand your parts. You have a whole new role to play in a power trio.

sneha1965 · #6 09-23-2010, 09:14 AM

What you play depends on the genre. For blues, get walking. Listen to Cream or Double Trouble.

skwee · #7 09-23-2010, 09:16 AM

Include the whole band in the discussion, because you need to figure out who makes the most sense to do each fill, etc. It might seem tedious, but you'll be happier in the end having worked it out. Also, it gets all of you thinking about balance and song structure on the same page.

FritoBandito · #8 09-23-2010, 09:18 AM

Cream, Experience, The Police, SRV, Rush......need I say more! In a power trio, there is no hiding behind anyone or 'blending' in. Jack Bruce and Geddy Lee are perfect examples of a bass players who approach their music as lead guitars. Listen to the live recordings of Cream and you'll see what I mean.

mikezimmerman · #9 09-23-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behemecoytl

do i need to compensate a little and expand my parts? or is the power trio characterized by minimalism?

I would say that's up to you (as a player and as a band) to decide! There isn't any one single way to play in a trio--it's what you make of it, really. Moreso with original music, but even with covers, it's up to you to decide how busy or sparse you want to be and what kind of sound you're going for as a band.

Wholksdaskppy · #10 09-23-2010, 09:32 AM

Look at Fall of Troy as well

pjmuck · #11 09-23-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

I would say that's up to you (as a player and as a band) to decide! There isn't any one single way to play in a trio--it's what you make of it, really. Moreso with original music, but even with covers, it's up to you to decide how busy or sparse you want to be and what kind of sound you're going for as a band.

+1. Define what your band's sound is and what style you're playing. I see a few people suggesting that your responsible for filling in gaps with busier playing. Well not if nobody else is holding it down! I don't see Lemmy of Motorhead noodling all over the fretboard.

But no reason you and the guitarist (or even drummer) can't switch it up when needed to play either rhythm support or lead. Just make sure it's tight and it flows rhythmically and melodically. You didn't say whether you were an instrumental band or with vocals or not, but if one of you is planning on singing then make that the focal/vocal point by which to build your parts around, making sure you can both execute your parts while singing and also not step on one another.

KrisH · #12 09-23-2010, 09:51 AM

Trio is my favorite line-up, and it's what worked most effectively during much of my professional life. Sometimes a trio with an extra guitar, or a singer that did incidental keys. I felt it allowed me to spread out more, not necessarily to overplay and clutter up the sound, but to explore more rhythmic and chordal possibilities. It does test your ability to decide what are the most important elements of a song!

**pacojas** · #13 09-23-2010, 09:56 AM

widen/fatten your sound in various ways, also. (pedals)

JonnyAngle · #14 09-23-2010, 10:24 AM

Dusty Hill of ZZ top! I'm in a trio and I keep it simple. I guess you don't have to be too concerned about making your part more complex, but you need SOMETHING to fill in. If you are a pocket player and lock in w/ the drums, just funk it up a little.

If you OD your tone, it will help significantly.

3rdBass · #15 09-23-2010, 10:41 AM

on what pjmuck & mikezimmerman said. Also agree with KrisH on trios being my favorite.
Less personalities, drama and gear to haul, more room to stretch out and $$ in the pocket.
Trios are where I started over 30 years ago and have ended up again, full circle.
Not to toot my own horn or highjack your thread, but here's what our one year old trio is doing:

http://www.bandmix.com/gil-young/

behemecoytl, you could chime back in with what genre, covers, etc. that your trio is into.
That would help with suggestions & opinions.

behemecoytl · #16 09-23-2010, 11:01 AM

thanks for all the advice...

we're playing mostly rock, blues in the bar-rock-cover-band staples vein... like Sweet Home Alabama, Brown Eyed Girl, Keep Your Hands to Yourself... (any suggestions are welcome)

the lead guitar is presently singing, but i'm learning how to play bass and sing at the same time...

we also have a chick singer (who also plays some rhythm stuff like shakers or washboard)... so i'm thinking we might try some Pretenders, maybe some paired down Blondie...

bassbrad · #17 09-23-2010, 11:09 AM

Power trios can be a real showcase for a bass player, my favorite group size for power rock or even jazz with the right players. The great thing about a power trio is there is no right or wrong it's what works for you as players and the music you play. You will need to become a master of space and time both the notes played and not played and you may need to expand you sound possibilities using effects or chordal techniques.
Listen to as many power trios as you can, there are all sorts of takes. From the minimal deep driving grooves a la ZZ Top to the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Police, James Gang, Creedence, SRV, Who (power trio w/singer) to the maddening frenzy of Rush, Cream, Allan Holdsworth, Steve Morse and others all the way back to jazz trios like Pat Metheny's 'Bright Size Life' with Jaco.

bassvi · #18 09-23-2010, 11:15 AM

You can stretch out more and use chords to fill out the sound effectively, but don't feel that you have to fill every space. The space is a component of the sound- learn to listen for that and use it to your advantage. I like the "open" sound of trios, myself.

Chasarms · #19 09-23-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skwee

Include the whole band in the discussion, because you need to figure out who makes the most sense to do each fill, etc. It might seem tedious, but you'll be happier in the end having worked it out. Also, it gets all of you thinking about balance and song structure on the same page.

+1.

All three of you have to be more deliberate about what you do, and be much more aware of each other. The fewer the pieces, the more exposed all of you are.

Unfortunately, your guitar player will have a LOT to do with how good you sound, everything from how he transitions in and out of leads to even how he EQs his guitar is going to help or hurt the sense of "emptiness" when he drops off rhythm.

3rdBass · #20 09-23-2010, 11:28 AM

I've found that locking with either our drummer or guitarist while the other is "taking off" is helpful.
In other words, one of the three should try to carry the constant rhythm while the other 2 take off.
If our guitarist is playing straight rhythm chords and singing lead along with the drummer laying in the pocket,
I'll feel free to throw some lead fills in between the verses.

On the other hand, if the guitarist is soloing and the drummer is accenting his lines, I keep steady on the one.
That's not to say that we all don't take off during a soloing crescendo right before dropping back into a last verse.

I suppose these are individual techniques & styles that you might develop and use with YOUR trio, though.
The dynamics of the band are very important, you must learn to read each other and anticipate what's happening.
Like a 3-way conversation, sometimes you lay back and listen, sometimes it's time to speak up.

As far as actual sound, pacojas and JonnyAngle have good points. I fatten up my tone and use some OD crunch and high end boost at times,
especialy when it's my turn to solo. Other times a slight chorus or echo/ delay during the guitar solos or slow songs help to fill out the overall effect.
Use the FX sparingly though, don't make them obvious transitions. Practice changing your tones just by how hard you're digging in, too.
Your signature reads "Fender V Jazz Dlx", an excellent choice for a wide variety of tonal options.