Seperating the 2nd and 3rd fingers.

Poop-Loops · #1 08-28-2006, 12:33 AM

I can get a pretty good stretch from my index to pinky finger, but 2 & 3 seem to be gay for eachother or something and won't come apart almost at all. Lower on the neck, they're not even a half step apart. It sucks even more because I play a fretless, so I can't half-ass it. Any suggestions besides some sort of stretching ala Bloodsport?

JimmyM · #2 08-28-2006, 02:18 AM

Make sure your thumb is in the middle of the back of your neck, and your fingers are curved to where the fingertips are touching the strings, and don't let your fingers flatten out. Your problem can be solved by two things...proper left hand technique and discipline.

Marcus · #3 08-28-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Make sure your thumb is in the middle of the back of your neck, and your fingers are curved to where the fingertips are touching the strings, and don't let your fingers flatten out. Your problem can be solved by two things...proper left hand technique and discipline.

Indeed.

A lot of the problem with lefthand fingering can be solved with practice of proper hand placement on the neck itself. If your thumb is giving you a good "arch" to reach each note, you should be able to play in any position without a problem.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #4 08-28-2006, 09:07 AM

I can't help, but I share your pain- my middle and ring fingers actually point towards one another on my left hand....moreso than they do on my right hand (it basically looks like my ring finger is twisted a bit towards the middle finger). They are both strong and flexible, but getting them to separate more than one fret apart is very difficult.

slackerdefined · #5 08-28-2006, 10:23 AM

Perhaps you can try an exercise, you can make one up yourself, or even a song if you can find one, that uses the two fingers, and play it higher on the neck where frets are closer together, and slowly work your way up until you can do it on the first fret. That way you can get actual feedback on your progress by how low you can do it on the fretboard.

This is assuming that your technique isn't the problem, of course.

Swimming Bird · #6 08-28-2006, 10:59 AM

You could try useing them as a 'single finger' if nothing else really works. You know. "West side." Well, not crossed, but almost like an upright, use your index, your 2nd and 3rd fingers together, and your pinky. And you could just compensate with your right hand for speed. Use your thumb to fret once you get above the 12th fret position. Or whatever. You've got an uncommon problem, so either start stretching your fingers apart (as well as do other suggested exercises, discipline, etc) or get creative and use it to make a more unique playing style.

AGCurry · #7 08-28-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

I can't help, but I share your pain- my middle and ring fingers actually point towards one another on my left hand....moreso than they do on my right hand (it basically looks like my ring finger is twisted a bit towards the middle finger). They are both strong and flexible, but getting them to separate more than one fret apart is very difficult.

I really can't think of any playing situation where they NEED to be more than one fret apart...

Steve Clark · #8 08-28-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGCurry

I really can't think of any playing situation where they NEED to be more than one fret apart...

That's what I was thinking.

If I look at my hand, without a bass, as if it was on a bass my 2 and 3 point towards each other. While I don't think that makes them gay, as the original poster suggested, I do think its genetic and nothing I can do about it. That said they seem to be getting along well with other fingers. The thumb does stay firmly behind the neck so perhaps its fingerphobic.

JohnBarr · #9 08-28-2006, 12:28 PM

Give up

Naw. Just stop fretting (sorry, couldn't help that). Seriously.
I think Steve Clark summed it up well enough.

I have the same problem, maybe worse. If genetix have anything to do with it, I can expect my ring finger to lap over my middle. It's already starting and there's not going to be any stopping it. I do some exercises off and on with a ball or one of those grip-spring gadgets

The extent to which it hampers my playing is hard to say, (BTW I'm on fretless as well) but what I've noticed so far is that there seems to be some natural, unconscious adaptation that takes place and my fingers get to where they need to be when they need to be there, although shifting position I can see my hand go claw-like.

It will probably affect my speed long term. So what? I'll play fewer notes.

If it really has you down, do a Google on hand exercises or related terms, there is, or was, a pretty good site out there by some orthopod types with a fairly detailed regimen of exercises involving balls, pencils etc.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #10 08-28-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGCurry

I really can't think of any playing situation where they NEED to be more than one fret apart...

Then you're not trying to play the same stuff I am

Also, it makes it tough on fretless to play quick chromatic lines to get that ring finger in the right spot. Can't get away with the same imprecise fingering on fretless that I can on fretted.

JimmyM · #11 08-28-2006, 02:29 PM

Tim, maybe you would like us to play your bass for you. Sounds like you have been given plenty of good advice but you don't have the discipline to stick with it and force yourself to do it. I refer you to this quote from your post:

"And every exercise that you will be refered to you will be able to play by keeping all your fingers close together and simply shifting your hand around the bass. Something we can already do but are wanting to get away from."

Well what do you want? If you are given the exercises but you just shift your hand around to defeat their purpose, what do you want from us? To stand over you with a ruler and smack your knuckles with it every time you slip up? We can only give you advice. It's up to YOU to follow through on it and not look for ways to circumvent them from achieving their desired result.

BTW, there are plenty of situations where I need to have my fingers more than one fret apart. For example, the song "Same Old Song" by the Four Tops. It has a line that goes C-D-E-A. I play the first three notes on the A string using my first finger for the C, my middle finger for the D, and my little finger for the E because I don't like using open notes, nor do I think it's easy to play that way.

Poop-Loops · #12 08-28-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Then you're not trying to play the same stuff I am

Also, it makes it tough on fretless to play quick chromatic lines to get that ring finger in the right spot. Can't get away with the same imprecise fingering on fretless that I can on fretted.

Yeah, that's mainly it. On a fretted, I can slide my finger (by shifting my hand) up or just behind a fret and know I'm in the right spot. On the fretless, I know I'm not in the right spot, I just don't know by how much until I play the note.

AGCurry · #13 08-29-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

BTW, there are plenty of situations where I need to have my fingers more than one fret apart. For example, the song "Same Old Song" by the Four Tops. It has a line that goes C-D-E-A. I play the first three notes on the A string using my first finger for the C, my middle finger for the D, and my little finger for the E because I don't like using open notes, nor do I think it's easy to play that way.

Wow. Human diversity is truly an amazing thing. Your method would be the last one I'd consider. But if it works for you, cool.

Erick Lam · #14 08-29-2006, 07:31 AM

i and m more than one fret apart is relatively common, but not m and r. M and r more than one fret apart is what I call a shift in position.

Search around for John Patitucci's spider exercice. It's pretty good to stretch the fingers. IMO, it's the only finger exercice worth doing that doesn't have any musical aspect to it.

steveb98 · #15 08-29-2006, 08:20 AM

Check out Steve Bailey's website he has a couple finger exercises that are killers, but definitely will improve dexterity. Check out his Hazzard Exercise and it's variations.

http://www.stevebaileybass.com/

charic · #16 08-29-2006, 06:12 PM

ummm... am i a freak? my 2nd and 3rd fingers rest easily 2 frets apart this is on any of the frets... for example 3 & 5. Just tried it when i read this. Thumb placement doesnt seem to change this for me and my thumb tends to move on the neck depending which string i play (is this wrong?). This stretching could be caused by years of keyboard tho, if u think it could be maybe take up some keyboard?

JimmyM · #17 08-29-2006, 07:26 PM

You are a bit of a freak, and it could be the keyboard training. Don't question it...just enjoy it!

charic · #18 08-29-2006, 07:30 PM

YAY im a freak!!! cool beans! Yeah it could be the keyboard i reckon, bin playing since i was 5 so thats 15 years exp... so YAY!

Poop-Loops · #19 08-30-2006, 12:59 AM

I remember seeing on Ripley's (I think) a girl who as a kid always climbed trees like hardcore. By the time she was an adult, her fingers stretched out (length wise) and looked really weird. =/

So yeah, if you started stretching those fingers at a young age, they could have just come apart more. I'll just have to grow an extra finger to get the job done.

charic · #20 08-30-2006, 04:01 AM

You ever considered keyboard? Just buy a cheapo keyboard (make sure its full size keys though) and a chord dictionary. Itll help you with your score reading, possibly your theory and the chords will definately stretch your hands a bit

just learn some lame songs and you may find that your fingers move more independantly already. Heres something to try. Hold all your finger directly up then try to bend your pinky without moving any others. Ive never met anyone else that can do this but just trying will gradually seperate those fingers (bend at the middle knuckle

)