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  #41  
Old 10-01-2012, 03:50 PM
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I don't think you need a whole lot of strength to play bass you are only pushing the strings down a few millimeters. I have seen kids younger than ten playing so I would think a grown mans hands would be strong enough. Its more about getting the muscles to move in a way that they are not used to than the strength of your hands.
  #42  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mambo4 View Post


I'm playing a 4 fret pattern, my thumb usually sits behind fret 1 or 2. if reaching that fourth fret requires a little shift, I don't sweat it.
That's how I keep my hand...I try and use proper technique, and I keep my bass right in front of my stomach. But the way the pinky/ring finger bend is the area I get pain. The metacarpal/knuckle area is always in pain by the time I'm finishing up the begining of a 3rd set, and it will continue to hurt throughout the following day. I play jazz basses which have narrow necks, but I only have medium sized hand. I was thinking of either trying a thicker necked bass, or even a short scale to close the night with.

I've been working on angle, and from one week to the next, it feels better. I raised my bass a bit, and was cognizant of my elbow angle, so my hand hurt much less this past weekend.
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  #43  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:52 AM
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Definitely check your posture and playing position to find what's comfortable for you. Learn to play in a manner that doesn't hurt, even if it might not be technically correct. Bad habits can be corrected later, if you wish. I know, I've corrected some of mine, even after twenty some years. For now, just get to a point where you can play.

Also, see if you can find ways to stretch and warm up your hands and wrists. Getting some of the tension out and loosening up beforehand may help.
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  #44  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:53 AM
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I'm astounded that nobody has yet addressed the bass your playing. Has it been set up properly? You might very well be wrestling a beast that would have all of your hands hurting. My first suggestion is to check and make sure you have a good setup on your bass, second would be to drop the action as low as it could go. Since you're brand new at this it's advisable to get someone who knows what they're doing to do it, yet it's not impossible (even for a newbie) to do it yourself. Especailly with the help of people here. If you post some pics of a side view of your neck, showing the space between the strings and the fretboard, we'd be able to tell you if you need an adjustment.

2nd thing you might want to consider is lighter strings, or even nylon strings. Both would help a little (nylon strings would help a lot actually), but it would really be like putting a bandaid on the problem. I'd try everything else before that.

And as far as all the responses here, I'm going to go along with what Ezmar said in post 15 or 16. If proper technique is causeing you pain, find what works for you. Relax your hand, and find a comfortable position. See what position makes it easiest to play. For most people "proper" technique will be the least limiting, most comfortable way to play an instrument. For certain others it will only cause frustration and pain. We're all built a little differently, and ultimately it's most important to find what works for you. There are lots of successful musicians who play without using proper technique. I'm gonna guess that a well trained teacher would tell me my technique is way off, yet it never seemed to hold me back. If doing it "right" by the book is holding you back, then figure out what doing it "right" for you means.

Lastly, regarding the pain thing. As someone just pointed out there's a difference between pain and fatigue. And there's a difference in types and degree of pain. For the most part, I'm with the play through the pain group, but I have precautions. If it's a sharp stabbing this really hurts bad kind of pain, then it's a no brainer. Stop. Somethings wrong. If the pain continues long after your done playing. Stop. Somethings wrong. If it's a pain that builds gradually and stops as soon as you stop, then I'd say work with it. Don't push it to the point that it becomes a real problem, but work with it to build your strength. I think the bottom line with the pain thing is to know your own body, and know whether or not your causing damage, or simply using muscles that you're not used to using.

Good luck.
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  #45  
Old 11-18-2012, 08:27 AM
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My fatigue evaporated after this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXkxu_7Tn48

My teacher (and from what I gather, most teachers) taught me to play one finger per fret, which is a great thing to do...

...if you can pull off the stretch comfortably, which most people starting out on the bass won't unless they live in the mountains and build log houses with their big ham-hands. But for most players in general, and especially beginners, that stretch is... well... a stretch.

There are right and wrong ways to play an instrument, but if it feels wrong, chances are, it is. No one intentionally designed an instrument to feel uncomfortable to play and definitely not in a way that will cause damage to your body.
  #46  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Schmorgy View Post
No one intentionally designed an instrument to feel uncomfortable to play and definitely not in a way that will cause damage to your body.
Instruments were designed to have the physcal capabilities to produce the pitches, tones, characteristics, etc of music. Design was the modifying of its looks to be pleasing to the eye. Simply put, the understanding of the physical problems that existed or could be developed from a sustained use of the instrument were not important.
By not important I mean every instrument had a physical requirement that match a certain physique profile to the instrument. Regardless of the instrument that a player may wants to play, he was not given the overt unity, or dis-suaded from perusing it.
As a rule, if you could not play your instrument needed in a performance through illness or injury then you were replaced....end of problem as far as the performance is concerned it was performed.

OK was centuries ago and was a main concern or orchestral or ensemble players, but that was the start of the in-graining that it was never an instruments fault it was the player. Look at the Double bass, its lines and symmetry are a thing of beauty..Stradavarios help set instruments on this course. The instruments construction, design and looks never changed for centuries.
Violin, viola, cello etc are all of the same design. The chambers, bouts, necks, heel, tuners, fingerboard etc, are just differing sizes of the same design. But if a violin or viola plays on a sort of horizontal plane to the ground, and a double bass plays of a vertical plane then the ergonomics should be different. The size of the instrument means the ergonomics should be different. An ergonomic design on a double bass would have the chamber that is the same volume so as to produce the depth of tone. Strings of compatible thickness so the tension and pitch can be attained. But the design would have a cut-a-way in the body to allow the player to access the fingerboard in the body, not use a different technique to reach it. But that instrument would not have pleasing proportions....it would be considerd ugly, and also un-necessary because they were not concerned with the needs of a player, on the needs of the music.

Through the centuries a teaching pedogy evolved to teach players how to best handle the instrument, as it did with all instruments.

To this end musicians would not admitt to physical problems or illness for fear of losing their jobs....this is as true today as it was then, the psychology of a player can be his own worst enemy.
So there was no feed back about design, no collective info on good ideas and practices and bad ones.
I mean if two schools of use appeared over the use of a bow, (German or French ) this could only happen because the two came together at some point so a comparison could be made.
Each one has it pros and cons, but it was either one or the other. A student would normally be taught what the teacher used, regardless if it was best for student or not.
Failure to master the technique was the students fault, not that of the teacher or instrument. Employment was refused or players sacked for using the wrong one, it was just no acceptable regardless of situation or circumstance. But these day both are used, a player can exploit the tones, use of ease etc of both, they can use the pros and loss the cons if you will.

But come to modern times with modern materials, constructions etc, basses are now guitars so the body has no need for mass of volume as electronics do the work, ( I understand about wood, tone and resonance, but all that is about tone...and tone is subjective ), wound strings now have cores to support the string across the loading points of nut and bridge to hold the sting up with reduced tension, but still produce a usable pitch. Leo Fender done to bass guitar, as far as design appearance is concerned, as to what Stradavarios done to the double bass......
Fender's template design was used by many regardlessly.
So the first bass encouraged the use of the thumb, the bass could be played with a pick or fingers....just look at the way camps here on TB seem to split in to a " one or the other " camp rather than a combined use of any if the situation can use it. Even some of the ideas about playing the bass guitar were associated with the word "bass" rather than the word guitar. I have yet to see a guitarist use his fingers in the way a bassist is taught for their plucking technique..a two/three/four finger technique that hangs down on the strings more vertical than horizontal is just not taught to guitarist from any era of guitar going back centuries, so why when the bass guitar evolved did it not use guitar technique rather double bass technique.... as i said, the key focus was the word bass rather than guitar.

But so long as a design can please the eye there will be a market for them, and some of today's instruments are both beautifull and full of ergonomic benifits, but this is a true ergonomic bass.......but will this design ever become the adopted standard....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLi8pOa6zYk&sns=em

I don't think so...but it is a cool bass and one that could help a lot of players suffering a lot of problems that physically limit them.....worth considering if you are one of those players......but what wait till that problem has become a reality? Use a bass like this and maybe reduce the chance of it ever developing in the first place, prevention is as good as cure in this situation.
  #47  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 AM
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It is now utterly illogical to me that ANY instrument should be played the same way by all humans when we vary so widely in physical characteristics. Imho just the typical act of twisting the fretting arm/hand around then fretting a guitar or bass is 'unnatural'. Yes we are supremely adaptable, but the closer I can get to comfort while playing, I'll do it! If that means I'll never be the most technically astounding bassist, so be it, I've been good as I've needed to be and still improving, all without pain beyond normal muscle memory building fatigues.
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  #48  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:11 PM
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+1. Well put. I'm a relatively new Bass Player. Played drums all my life. Now at 59, I took on a new challenge. My fingers are short, thus my decision was made to opt for the Jazz, not the P Bass. I'm glad I did what I did. I have 'reslung' the bass several times, to a point where my plucking wrist is comfortable. If I am playing low on the fret board, I raise the neck, so as to get a more comfortable grip on the neck (more like perpendicular than at an angle). Otherwise, I like the neck up 45 degrees from horizontal. I've only got the pointer/middle/ring fingers working right now. But that is better than the one that I started with. Once I 'know' a song, then I can concentrate on getting more fingers into the action. When playing and I shift strings, I try to think ahead as to which finger I want to lead with, knowing whether I will then move up or down the frets. It's a slow process for a beginner, but it all feels good. No pain. Frustration yes, but that is a mental state which can be overcome. Practice, Practice, Practice.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conqr View Post
It is now utterly illogical to me that ANY instrument should be played the same way by all humans when we vary so widely in physical characteristics. Imho just the typical act of twisting the fretting arm/hand around then fretting a guitar or bass is 'unnatural'. Yes we are supremely adaptable, but the closer I can get to comfort while playing, I'll do it! If that means I'll never be the most technically astounding bassist, so be it, I've been good as I've needed to be and still improving, all without pain beyond normal muscle memory building fatigues.
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