Simple songs

[iceshaft07]

What approach do you people take when you write to a song that is repetative?

I have played scales, tried pedalling, and tried slap and pop, but I am not sure if there are a few other approaches I am not thinking of.

Any style approaches to a problem like this would be helpful .

[Deacon_Blues]

If you want any answers, please describe your issue more in detail. I didn't get what you were looking for... Simple songs was the title, then you speak about repetative songs. What do you mean by that?

Also did you mean "What approach do you people take when you write a bassline to a song that is repetative?" or something else? What styles of music are you talking about?

[lomo]

It's a tough question without hearing the tune, but a great way to get variety is by inverting triads (instead of 1,3,5, try 3-5-1, 5-1-3) or basing your line on scales instead of roots/triads. Or, fall back on your modes!

[VroomVroom]

Let your ears be your guide. Simple and obvious, but well...it works. Pedal tones work great against moving harmonies...but so do descending/ascending bass lines. Whatever the song needs....you're the glue between rhythm and harmony, either supporting or avoiding melody, but never getting in the way.

[tZer]

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to not be bored? You can fix that by changing your point of view and focusing on how rock-solid and air-tight you can play that simple song.

Make it a game between you and the drummer to lock it down as a team so freakin' tight that light can't even escape.

Also, instead of thinking of "quantity of notes" as being the thing that makes a part interesting and think "quality of each note". If you switch you brain over to listen to the shape, duration, attack, release and stopping of every single note, you should be thrilled that you are playing a "simple" song - cuz the more notes you gotta play and the faster you gotta play 'em leaves you much less breathing room to work on their quality.

This is also an prime opportunity for you to perfect your technique. Your fingerstyle or picking - your thumping or thumbing.

Less notes may appear to be less interesting, but listen to the playback of a really nice ballad or simple song where you go bored and tried adding a lot of stuff that felt really good at the time. More often than not you will kick yourself for being so impatient.

Then listen to that same simple song where you purposefully chose to be as fundamental and consistent as possible - focusing on the quality of each note - keeping the time locked down, etc... You will smile the smile of those who really know what makes a song sound so good!

If you use the simple songs to focus on these aspects, then when you get to move on to more complicated ones, these exercises will carry over and improve them too.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by tZer

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to not be bored? You can fix that by changing your point of view and focusing on how rock-solid and air-tight you can play that simple song.

Make it a game between you and the drummer to lock it down as a team so freakin' tight that light can't even escape.

Also, instead of thinking of "quantity of notes" as being the thing that makes a part interesting and think "quality of each note". If you switch you brain over to listen to the shape, duration, attack, release and stopping of every single note, you should be thrilled that you are playing a "simple" song - cuz the more notes you gotta play and the faster you gotta play 'em leaves you much less breathing room to work on their quality.

This is also an prime opportunity for you to perfect your technique. Your fingerstyle or picking - your thumping or thumbing.

Less notes may appear to be less interesting, but listen to the playback of a really nice ballad or simple song where you go bored and tried adding a lot of stuff that felt really good at the time. More often than not you will kick yourself for being so impatient.

Then listen to that same simple song where you purposefully chose to be as fundamental and consistent as possible - focusing on the quality of each note - keeping the time locked down, etc... You will smile the smile of those who really know what makes a song sound so good!

If you use the simple songs to focus on these aspects, then when you get to move on to more complicated ones, these exercises will carry over and improve them too.

+1 In the last half year or so I've been appreciating and working on the power of fewer notes, but concentrating on the feel, placement, and power of those notes. It's not so obvious when you're playing it, but hearing the playback reveals the depth of the approach. It's hard to resist filling up the space with more notes but so often one well played and placed note really grooves the tune.

[musicmedic]

Remember, the space between the notes is just as important as the notes themselves. Play for the song and you'll know when it's "just right".

[tZer]

Originally Posted by dvh

...[snip]It's not so obvious when you're playing it, but hearing the playback reveals the depth of the approach. It's hard to resist filling up the space with more notes but so often one well played and placed note really grooves the tune.

These comments are so true. Recording EVERYTHING has been what I consider to be the most important practice tool ever and the most productive practice involves listening to these recordings MORE than running your parts as physical exercises. You learn songs in your head. You play songs from your head.

In my experience over the last few years, I have been struck by how different what you hear in the playback can be compared to how you thought it would sound while you were actually playing.

My hypothesis is that during play, your brain can only do so many things at one time. Because of that, you cannot hear the big picture in it's entirety. It does not matter if you have great monitors or not - it is not how the band sounds - it's your brain's ability to process information. When you have to focus on making your fingers work, using your ears to keep you oriented and so on, the ability to hear how the keys, singer, guitar(s), percussion, et al. are intermingling is less than when you put your instrument down and hear the playback.

During the playback the brain resources that were being allocated to the physical necessities of playing with your group are freed up and you can actually hear the big picture more clearly at that time. So for me, THAT is when you decide whether your part was "right" or not.

For those who don't record rehearsals - the only thing they have to go on in reference to how their part was is the feeling they had while they were playing. This is a very faulty and skewed perspective in relation to the song as a whole and the chances are very good that if the bass player felt good during while playing, he/she was probably being overly self-indulgent! LOL

So as a rule of thumb - if you don't have the benefit of a recording and you feel like you just played the greatest line ever, you should probably consider cutting 1/2 to 2/3 of the notes you played out - then you are probably close to what the song really needed from you! LOL

[iceshaft07]

Thanks, I'll try that. I was thinking that I was over complicating things, but at the same time, I don't want to undercomplicate things.

As far as "insert a bunch of notes that sound good together" goes, I can do that just fine. But sometimes, it just sounds bad, and this is one of those songs (where it sounds really bad).

I guess one of the harder lessons I am going to have to learn is that some songs just need fewer notes.

[fcleff]

Iceshaft, remember that it is o.k. to use whole notes or very little motion. Think of the bassline to 'My Girl'. This is not a complicated line and, in many respects, is very easy to play. Jamerson is just soooooo tight with the drummer (and other players) that the groove is just unbeatable.

There is another player named Dennis Crouch who plays on a county album of which I am very fond (you may not like country music but that is not the point here). The album is called 'Country Sunshine' by Bruce Robison. On many of the songs Crouch plays whole notes much of the time. When he uses motion it really makes the song work because the groove has been so simple but really tight the whole time. His motion is tastefully placed so that the song moves forward.

Try taking any one of your songs and just playing through it with whole notes. Record this and listen to it. Then get it really tight, recording and listening each time. Once you have it really tight you will find where you want the motion to happen, if at all.