Slap and the 'smiley' EQ

[Chris K]

I'm curious about if for slapping, scooping the mids is the only option to get rid of those nasty ringing overtones. I like to hear some low mids in my 'normal' sound. But when I turn my low mids up, the overtones get really loud.

[RCCollins]

you can use a switchable EQ for slap tones if your amp doesnt have that option. You don't have to use a smiley-shaped EQ, but you DO need to scoop the mids somehow if your bass and rig are mid-heavy - otherwise, as you're hearing, the overtones get really loud

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

you can use a switchable EQ for slap tones if your amp doesnt have that option. You don't have to use a smiley-shaped EQ, but you DO need to scoop the mids somehow if your bass and rig are mid-heavy - otherwise, as you're hearing, the overtones get really loud

Thanks RC, but what do you mean by: "....if your bass and rig are mid-heavy"?

[RCCollins]

some basses, and some amps, have more present mids even when set "flat". In these cases, you need to scoop even MORE mids. other setups will require less mid reduction

[JimmyM]

i use a goodly amount of low mids and i don't scoop and i only get bad overtones when i don't get a solid thumb on the string or do it too close to a harmonic. i've also found that if you slap too lightly like a lot of these young jazz punks recommend, you'll get more overtones as well. of course, the tradeoff for that is speed, which suits me fine because i have no speed when i slap anyway

[Chris K]

Hey Jim, knew I could count on you, my friend.

I noticed the problem of getting too close to the harmonics spot (the slap ground around the 24th fret), but moving away from it did'n't help me much.

Other causes might be my beloved TI Jazz Rounds... a bit more string tension and a little more brute force might help, what do you think?

[JimmyM]

a little brute force should help, but i really don't see why you should have to change strings if you love them. i would actually think you would like slapping on ti's, chris. to me they sound pretty much like broken in rounds. i guess you could try something else, but for me, changing away from my favorite strings would be a last resort.

[faulknersj]

What kind of bass are you using? Every bass is different when it comes to slapping, and some are better suited than others. I have 6 basses, 2 of which sound just fine with my EQ flat ( a Fender MIA P Bass, and a Custom Shop Jazz) The others all need varying degrees of EQ adjustments to sound ok when slapped. If your amp only has one EQ section, and the bass is passive, it can be really hard to dial in an EQ setting that functions well for both slap and finger style, and that compromise can be frustrating. Could you elaborate more on your gear and your setings? Amp, Cab, Bass?

[Devo-lution]

I don't really have a harmonics or overtone problem when slapping... and no smiley face here either.

I generally tend to boost my mids, even when slapping... Also, I engage the VLE on my markbass a bit and slightly cut the lows and highs

Also, I use chromes and slap between the pick up and the f-board of my musicman ray. Slapping power would be in between... No brute force but not gently caressing either.

This setting gives me my best slap tone up till now... It cuts through a bandmix and it doesn't go all "ZING" on me. To be honest, I prefer the chromes slapping sound over my previous roundwound sets'... shouldn't be a string problem, though... I've heard plenty of good things about those TI's.

@ Jimmy

with hard slapping, do you mean Larry Graham-like? Or even more fierce?

[JimmyM]

nah, larry graham level slapping should suffice. or even a little less than that. but not too much less.

faulkner, chris is using a g&l l2500 and a yamaha something or other 5 string. it's in his profile. both sound like slappable basses to me.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by faulknersj

What kind of bass are you using? Every bass is different when it comes to slapping, and some are better suited than others. I have 6 basses, 2 of which sound just fine with my EQ flat ( a Fender MIA P Bass, and a Custom Shop Jazz) The others all need varying degrees of EQ adjustments to sound ok when slapped. If your amp only has one EQ section, and the bass is passive, it can be really hard to dial in an EQ setting that functions well for both slap and finger style, and that compromise can be frustrating. Could you elaborate more on your gear and your setings? Amp, Cab, Bass?

I use a Yamaha BGG 5, but I also have two fretless basses (a G&L L2500 I set to passive most of the time, and a modded Dean with passive SD's). Eventually I would like to slap really well on fretless. The fretless basses show more or less the same problem. And yes, they all are passive or set to passive.

I run my signal through my PJB Briefcase (5 band EQ) with some compression, then (via pre ampout) to my Markbass cmd 151p.

Settings on the bass: neck pickup, tone open. bridge PU off.

PJB EQ 'smiley': bass high, low mids neutral, midmids low, highmids neutral, highs high.

On the Markbass: bass 12 (o'clock). low mids 12, high mids 7, treble 3, VLFand VPE both off (CCW).

Also a VT Bass (bass 12, mids 9, highs 3) but it does't make a lot of a difference (to the overtones I mean).

Only if I plug into the Markbass directly, the problem is a little less, but not much. It can't be feedback either, since I tried it on the PJB with headphones and speakers disconnected. Same problem.

[JimmyM]

holy crap, that's an insane amount of treble! 3:00 treble on the vt takes my head off! lord have mercy on the dogs in your neighborhood

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

holy crap, that's an insane amount of treble! 3:00 treble on the vt takes my head off! lord have mercy on the dogs in your neighborhood

No problem, they all died soon after I moved to this place

[Devo-lution]

Originally Posted by Chris K

I use a Yamaha BGG 5, but I also have two fretless basses (a G&L L2500 I set to passive most of the time, and a modded Dean with passive SD's). Eventually I would like to slap really well on fretless. The fretless basses show more or less the same problem. And yes, they all are passive or set to passive.

I run my signal through my PJB Briefcase (5 band EQ) with some compression, then (via pre ampout) to my Markbass cmd 151p.

Settings on the bass: neck pickup, tone open. bridge PU off.

PJB EQ 'smiley': bass high, low mids neutral, midmids low, highmids neutral, highs high.

On the Markbass: bass 12 (o'clock). low mids 12, high mids 7, treble 3, VLFand VPE both off (CCW).

Also a VT Bass (bass 12, mids 9, highs 3) but it does't make a lot of a difference (to the overtones I mean).

Only if I plug into the Markbass directly, the problem is a little less, but not much. It can't be feedback either, since I tried it on the PJB with headphones and speakers disconnected. Same problem.

It seems to me that you already have some scoop in your sound... Also an insane amount of treble on your markbass... (and on your VT and on your PJB thingy)...

Opposed to that, you solo a neck pick up, but still... lots of treble. And lots of high mids cutting. Do the Ti's really bring out that much high mids?

What kind of slap sound are you going for actually? Judging by your EQ my guess is that you're aiming for deep down below and airy on top, but I have no experience with several of your gear thingies.

Also, what cab do you use. I had a similar problem to my sound, which was caused by a cab that, ironically, gave me virtually no low mids.

[faulknersj]

I am afraid that I am unfamiliar with most of your gear excluding the Markbass head. I can only say that my experience has shown me that every bass is unique when it comes to slap technique, and I own (and have owned) basses that I almost consider unslappable. Ironically, some of these basses are my 'go to's' for finger style only gigs. I was never a 'slap' guy, but have had to learn and experiment over the last year or so by neccesity. I am still figuring it out to an extent myself, but I know that unlike in the past, prior to any new purchase, I will give new basses a 'slap test' and be very picky about finding axes that sound great slapped or finger style without needing EQ adjustments. Best wishes my friend and I will watch this thread with interest

[millerfreak]

Ok, firstly, it makes sense when you slap near the 24th fret and it makes overtone. Why don't you set your eq flat? and go from there. I always set my eq flat, and use nothing else. The more alterations the harder you get the sound.

I find that slap tone is best with straight signal, bass>amp, the only thing that you would need is probably compressor. More thingo, mess up your tone IMO.

So try this, and see how it goes. Being a huge fan of slapping I've been producing great tone out of my bass & rig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdL8ZEDGAZM

Slap is around middle part.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Chris K

I use a Yamaha BGG 5, but I also have two fretless basses (a G&L L2500 I set to passive most of the time, and a modded Dean with passive SD's). Eventually I would like to slap really well on fretless. The fretless basses show more or less the same problem. And yes, they all are passive or set to passive.

I run my signal through my PJB Briefcase (5 band EQ) with some compression, then (via pre ampout) to my Markbass cmd 151p.

Settings on the bass: neck pickup, tone open. bridge PU off.

PJB EQ 'smiley': bass high, low mids neutral, midmids low, highmids neutral, highs high.

On the Markbass: bass 12 (o'clock). low mids 12, high mids 7, treble 3, VLFand VPE both off (CCW).

Also a VT Bass (bass 12, mids 9, highs 3) but it does't make a lot of a difference (to the overtones I mean).

Only if I plug into the Markbass directly, the problem is a little less, but not much. It can't be feedback either, since I tried it on the PJB with headphones and speakers disconnected. Same problem.

Kind of a strange set-up. First, turning the bridge pickup off is a bit of a strange choice for slap style, although that 'PBass' slap tone is of course classic in its own way.

The first thing I would do is get that Phil Jones pre out of the signal path. No real reason to feed one pre (the Phil Jones) into another, and the extreme EQ setting you are using on that unit is really working against you, especially since using only the neck pickup plays heck with your mid punch and upper end. YOu are kind of doing the same thing as cranking the bass and treble on an on-board preamp, which pretty much assures you of a muddy, peaky mess.

Also, the treble control on the MB heads is a 'nonsymmetrical wide Q (so, basically similar to shelving) set at 10K. That control is really designed more to cut than boost (the 'magic' treble freq for adding some shimmer to a slap tone is closer to 4K or so).

So, IMO, dime both pickups, eliminate the PJ preamp (redundant), and then just remove a smidge of upper mids using the Markbass pre (that 800hz center point is perfect to remove the harsh upper mids).

And remember, the VLE is a 'scoop control', and applying just a little of that will do basically what your PJB preamp is doing if you feel you need a bit more deep low end and sparkle up top... I would NEVER engage that circuit more than 9 o'clock.

You just have too much EQ and preamp into another preamp thing going, and your pickup blend choice is also working against you.

If you would find it at all helpful, I have quite a few clips of slap style using a Markbass head set completely flat through various cabs on my Youtube channel. Slap style is not my personal strong point, but you can at least hear the tone of a relatively neutral Markbass setting.

Here's an example... Markbass F500 set completely flat (filters off, tone controls at noon), Alleva-Coppolo 60's style J with preamp basically flat nad both pickups full on, tone control open, and the somewhat neutral voiced Bergantino AE212.

http://www.youtube.com/Kjungbass#p/a/u/2/hNqegulMons

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by Devo-lution

What kind of slap sound are you going for actually? Judging by your EQ my guess is that you're aiming for deep down below and airy on top.

Exactly.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by KJung

Kind of a strange set-up. First, turning the bridge pickup off is a bit of a strange choice for slap style, although that 'PBass' slap tone is of course classic in its own way.

Yep.

The difference between me and others might be that my aim is to not concentrate on slapping as a solo feature, but to use it as a regular technique throughout a piece or song. For that, you need lots of fundamental pitch.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by faulknersj

I am afraid that I am unfamiliar with most of your gear excluding the Markbass head. I can only say that my experience has shown me that every bass is unique when it comes to slap technique, and I own (and have owned) basses that I almost consider unslappable. Ironically, some of these basses are my 'go to's' for finger style only gigs. I was never a 'slap' guy, but have had to learn and experiment over the last year or so by neccesity. I am still figuring it out to an extent myself, but I know that unlike in the past, prior to any new purchase, I will give new basses a 'slap test' and be very picky about finding axes that sound great slapped or finger style without needing EQ adjustments. Best wishes my friend and I will watch this thread with interest

I think you hit the nail on the head writing that EQ settings might be the problem. I started to experiment with the EQ on the PJB. Bringing down the low mids there immediately cured the problem. But doing that also killed the punch and 'bassyness' in my D- and G string. Which is fully explainable, since those two are in the overtone area of the E-string.

As for combining the PJB EQ and the Markbass EQ: some posters believe that to not be a very smart idea. However, I discovered that those EQ's work quite differently. The Markbass is 4-band, the PJB is 5-band, so the controls cover different frequency ranges.