smooth attack on fretless

SevenPrime · #1 08-25-2010, 09:16 PM

I listened to Jaco growing up, but actually the person who pushed me over the edge to going fretless was Jonas Reingold of the Flower Kings. He's not the only one, but he's got some beautiful examples of high fretless soloing in which every note just floats into the music. I've spent the last year playing mostly simple "ooom-paahh" bass lines for a Celtic group. But in some of my own writing, I finally have a chance to try some similarly slow lead work.

Obviously, the sound I'm looking for involves rolling the pitch up, and some vibrato, I've been doing that for a while now. But the thing I can't seem to master is getting that really slow smooth attack. It doesn't SOUND like processing, because there's also some resonance involved that makes me think that the string is literally "warming up" over a period of 80ms or so.

In my playing, I'm still hearing the momentary "tick" of the string leaving my finger. Rolling off my presence nob (woh! I've never used that before!) helps, But I'm not sure I know how to alleviate that sound, as well has achieve that really warm slow attack that I'm talking about?

MysticMichael · #2 08-25-2010, 09:25 PM

Sounds like your problem isn't the "attack" - it's the release...

Try moving your plucking hand closer to the edge of the fingerboard, using a little more meat of your plucking fingers; maybe lowering the string action a bit, and/or playing with a lighter touch.

All that said, though you say Reingold's tone doesn't sound processed, processed sound that doesn't sound that way is usually the hallmark of...really good processing. Chances are that there's a compressor in the signal chain somewhere - whether you can detect it or not...

MM

SevenPrime · #3 08-25-2010, 09:34 PM

Oh, no doubt. In fact, I'm running through a tube pre and a RNC as we speak. I'm no stranger to audio production. I guess what I meant was, I don't hear a gate with slow attack time or expander in the process. Compression? Definitely... who doesn't? But I don't really hear it as the main source behind the attack. It sounds like an acoustic process to me, not a post production one. But I could be wrong.

I did just try sticking a gate with slow attack, just to see whether or not it sounded anything like it. While it DOES smooth the attack and get rid of the string sound, it doesn't really sound like what I'm hearing.

I'm thinking there probably IS some automation going on, you can't COMPLETELY get rid of the string sound, of course. But the morphing of the sound in doesn't remind me of a resonance filter. But as I said, you can do anything in post... for all I know, that's a synthesizer... something like 30% of basses are these days.

MysticMichael · #4 08-25-2010, 10:20 PM

Yeah, while I've actually heard The Flower Kings in concert a couple of times, I honestly don't recall much about his tone per se (guess I was distracted by all the complex arrangements too much)...

But by your description, I would say it's almost certainly got to be some kind of signal processing that's chiefly responsible for what you hear - with his technique playing a secondary role in this case.

That'd be my guess...

MM

SevenPrime · #5 08-25-2010, 10:33 PM

Ya know, listening to it again, it's not quite as pronounced as I thought it was (Reingold's smooth tone). I guess my mind had emphasized the smooth sound, and constructed something that wasn't there.

But on the upside, I was able to get closer to what I was looking for, partially thanks to some of your advice. Playing up near the fingerboard was able to get the fingers away from the (lower) pickup, which helped. And, believe it or not, playing with the very tips of my fingers gave less of a scratchy pluck, which was probably the main bulk of the finger noise.

SevenPrime · #6 08-26-2010, 03:55 AM

Double post... I know

It's automation. It's pretty simple. I was able to produce pretty much exactly the same kind of sound (albeit with less control). The recipe was:

- Use the bridge pickup
- Turn down the treble/presence to about 1/4 (it's already going to be bright up there, this mellows out the sound)
- Play on or just above the fingerboard
- Use the tips of the fingers to lesson the "meaty" attack

And finally, if you're in a studio, take your automation, and do a 30-50ms swell on the beginning of each note. Don't drop the sound completely out or it'll sound fake, but a good -9dB will do the trick to cut the little bit of string pop sound you have left.

But even without the post, it sounded pretty good. Here's a demo of what I was finally able to do (with automation as well). This is a work in progress:

http://www.ericbarker.com/dropbox/Conversation.mp3 - Bass solo at 2:42