Soloing on Eb scale over Cm pentatonic pattern

[jdmmusic]

I know almost nothing about theory so I'm curious why it sounds very cool (a little jazzy but not crazy) when I solo using the notes of a regular Eb scale over a pattern that's based on a C minor pentatonic scale?

I'm looking at breaking out of the regular blue scale, octave, 3rds, 10ths, etc type soloing/fills so I'd like to understand the theory behind it to apply it to different situations.

Hopefully that's enough info for anyone that's not theory-impaired.

thanks

[Ski3223]

Because Cm is the relative minor of Eb major, meaning the scales have all the same notes, just different tonics (C for Cm, Eb for Ebmaj).

So essentially, you're playing in the key on a different root note. DEFINITELY sounds cool to me. Makes for great key changes too.

Convenient discovery without actually knowing the theory eh?

Oh and in order to find the relative minor of ANY major key, count down 3 half steps (i.e. Gmaj = Em). The converse is true as well, count up 3 for the relative major if you're in the minor key.

[azureblue]

well, because, by seeing it as an Eb scale, you are not so focused on the root and fifth of the C minor, and you are using an Ab, instead of an A natural, which gives it a more bluesey sound. Try a simple Eb pent- Eb / F / Bb / Ab, then do the same pattern in F. And try using a Flat third in Eb- an F# instead of a G- play a triplet G, F#, F, then an Eb, then a C. Theory wise- the F# gives you a flat 4 in C minor.

[jdmmusic]

wow, kind of like the moment when you realized that math really does help you in your day-to-day life.

thanks for the quick relies, I have to go play around with it for a while.

[Chrisk-K]

When you play an Eb scale over Cm, you eassentially make it sound like Cm9, Cm11 & Cm13b. That's why it sounds cool. Play an F major scale over Cm and see if you like the result.

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by azureblue

well, because, by seeing it as an Eb scale, you are not so focused on the root and fifth of the C minor, and you are using an Ab, instead of an A natural, which gives it a more bluesey sound. Try a simple Eb pent- Eb / F / Bb / Ab, then do the same pattern in F. And try using a Flat third in Eb- an F# instead of a G- play a triplet G, F#, F, then an Eb, then a C. Theory wise- the F# gives you a flat 4 in C minor.

I don't get this explanation at all.

This part "Try a simple Eb pent- Eb / F / Bb / Ab" is wrong on two counts. For one, there are 5 notes that make up a pentatonic scale. Second, there is no Ab in the Eb pentatonic scale. The Ab is the 4th of that major scale and the point of the pentatonic scale is to omit the 4th and 7th so they don't have to be resolved.

Also you talk about "using a Flat third in Eb- an F#" There is no F# in the Eb major scale. the flat 3rd is a Gb. You don't mix flats and sharps within a scale.

This part you are describing: "G, F#, F, then an Eb, then a C." is a descending Cmin blues scale line, and the blues scale is built within a major pentatonic scale by juxtaposing the major and minor thirds. Basically just add a minor 3rd to the major pentatonic.

So if you describe the Cmin blues scale (the relative minor to Eb), they will use the same "blue notes" as in the Eb major blues scale, those being the major 3rd: "G" and the minor 3rd: "Gb." The Gb is now the flat 5 of the C min pentatonic scale, since the C is now considered the root of that scale, but to use a note with a sharp value to describe a "Flat" anything seems not too clear.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but the terminology used here is so imprecise and just plain incorrect that it's way more confusing than helpful, but I'm always willing to learn something new. As far as I can tell though, the most accurate explanation was given by SKI3223.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

The Gb is indeed the flat 4 of the C min scale, since the C is now considered the root of that scale, but to use a note with a sharp value to describe a "Flat" anything seems not too clear.

Gb is the flat 5 of a C minor scale.

[Spin Doctor]

Yep, you're right... I will fix that.