Sore wrist

[Vendele197]

First of all, I hope this is the right forum. Second, I hope this isn't redundant. I did a search, but wanted some specific answers to my question.

Last night, after practicing for about 30 minutes, I noticed that my left wrist (I fret with my left hand) was starting to feel very sore. I couldn't quite tell if it was sore from bad technique, i.e. developing carpal tunnel or something like that, or if it was sore from practicing a lot. I've been practicing about 2-4 hours per day for the last week since I'm on fall break.

The pain is almost right at where the wrist bends. It is mild, but feels more like joint/bone pain then muscle pain. I wouldn't say it actually "hurts", but it is a minor discomfort that I sometimes notice even when not bending my wrist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would indicate a developing injury rather than tired muscles from practicing, right?

If it is in fact a developing injury, is it most likely that my technique is to blame? I have pretty long arms, and have been searching for the right height to set my bass at so that I can position both arms in comfortably. When fretting notes from frets 1-4, my wrist does bend considerably, but until just recently, that bending hasn't caused any noticeable discomfort.

Anyways, any suggestions, tips, ideas, concerns? If I did not provide enough detail, let me know.

Thanks.

[Valerus]

does extending your thumb hurt as well?

[PBass101]

I've always been told that your fretting-hand's wrist should never bend at all. I keep my fretting wrist straight at all times and I've never had a problem.

Try keeping your wrist straight and see if it's better.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by PBass101

I've always been told that your fretting-hand's wrist should never bend at all. I keep my fretting wrist straight at all times and I've never had a problem.

Try keeping your wrist straight and see if it's better.

+1.


My advice is to rest your hand for a day or two, or reduce your playing time drastically for the time being to allow the wrist to recover. As PBass101 says, the wrist (both wrists actually) should always be straight. If your bass has neck dive, that could be a factor too. Also how high or low you wear your bass can affect the angle of the wrist. It's generally advised (unless you have hands like "King Kong" ) not to use "one finger per fret" on frets 1-5. The link below explains why : Whatever you do, dont ignore the pain, it's nature warning you that something is amiss. Check out right and left hand technique clips on You Tube.

OFPF link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y57-2...eature=channel

[Vendele197]

Extending my thumb does not hurt. I just picked up my bass, played some stuff slowly, and watched my left wrist. When I play low notes, i.e frets 1-4 on the E string, and 1-4 on the A string to a lesser extent, my wrist was bent. Keeping my wrist straight feels better, but E-G# is terribly difficult to play. Also, by keeping my wrist straight, my arm shoots an imaginary line right through the back of my fingerboard and my thumb more or less rests on top of the neck.

I've never received formal instruction on BG, but I have on DB and was always told to keep my thumb behind the neck, opposite my middle finger. Is this something I shouldn't try to do on BG? I feel like I can't do so, at least in the lower positions, without bending my wrist.

I'm uploading three photos, one with my wrist bent, one not, and one showing the height of my bass while playing. Let me know where I'm going wrong.

[fearceol]

Here is another link that might help :

http://www.adamnitti.com/bass_player_03.shtml

[fearceol]

Here is one for the R/H :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU

[Turock]

Lay off the porn.

[Earthday]

Make sure you aren't squeezing the fretboard. You should be able to hold the frets down without the help of any part of your hand or thumb. The force should come from where your back and arm connect.

[gregwatts2008]

It could be something that you did with your wrist before even picking up the bass, and practicing just aggrivated it.

[Vendele197]

Originally Posted by gregwatts2008

It could be something that you did with your wrist before even picking up the bass, and practicing just aggrivated it.

I have broken my left wrist twice. The pain is similar to that of a broken wrist, just much, much milder and tolerable. That would make sense to me, besides the fact that my technique is not perfect.

[INTP]

I would take the pain seriously and have it looked at by a physician. They will know the physiology better than (most likely) anyone here and can tell you a lot more about what is affected, and what you should do about it.

Having said that...

Originally Posted by Vendele197

I've been practicing about 2-4 hours per day for the last week since I'm on fall break.

It appears that you've made a sudden increase in the duration and frequency of your practice sessions. My guess is that this sudden change is a contributor, and at the very least, you should take it easy for a bit.

Electric Bass is a very physical instrument and requires a lot of hand strength. I am a big fan of relatively brief but frequent (daily or nearly so) practice sessions to build the strength gradually. It's not just about muscle strength, though, but also about the connective tissue (tendons and ligaments, and their supporting structures), which does not build strength as quickly as do the muscles themselves. That's a big part of why it's important to go slowly, especially at first.

It's hard to tell from the photos, but I see a lot of tension in your hands, which seems to support this. I also see that you're fingering in the middle of the frets, which might be contributing to the tension. When I fret just behind the fret wire (almost on top of it), it feels more relaxed. I also second the suggestion to get your palm of the back of the fingerboard. It may feel better now, because you feel stronger that way, but it will definitely slow you down going forward.

Assuming everything checks out OK at the doctor, go back to shorter (but regular) practice sessions. After a few weeks, if you feel that you are ready to make them longer, do so, but a little at a time.

Good luck!

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by INTP

It appears that you've made a sudden increase in the duration and frequency of your practice sessions. My guess is that this sudden change is a contributor, and at the very least, you should take it easy for a bit.

Hi Kevin, i would think that the above observation is quite accurate, this and the fact you have suffered a fracture in the past will have a significance in your condition.

In a fracture the bone heals and the fracture is as a rule stronger due to the thickening requred to heal it. That proccess includes swelling and as the fracture heals the swelling goes down and eventully away. But there is sometimes a thicken left by the fluids of that swelling, for the use of a better word harden and remain. In the physio side of your recovery many techniques are use to break this down and let the body remove then from the place of injury, massage manipulation etc, and natural products like Arnica, in tablet and cream form will help and speed up this process.

You don't say if the fracture was at the same point, if so this may show a weakness in your bodies ability to deal with it. It may be your body still has not dealt with it, so se a medical pro and geat this checked out. In years to come this could be a chronic problem for you so check it out now. When you are young you body can cope with such things as you heal and recover fast. In later life (40-50) you will find that these things come back in some form or another to affect you.
There will be many older players on this form that will tell you about injries sustained when younger that give them a problem of sort now, that they wish they had delt with better at the time....if only they had known.

On another point, i listened to you music, and looked at you pictures and videos, and can see really no point to the hand positions you use in that form of music.
I would get better positions and employ a more basic technique to cope with what you really need. A bit like using a racing horse to pull a cart i feel you're techique is not strong enough to cope with what you are doing.
In the links are some great player that many would consider a restricted technique, but it is technique to play what is required

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4-O1JDjdUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw3QK8pMg9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrav_MSMjNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ZdmlKX06A

Look at all the different styles techniques and see what the all have in common, for me it is being able to produce what they need to do, the techniques, hand positions vary to suit what is being played and required.
You may notice positions that are supposed to be wrong or bad technique as spoken about on many forums, but they use them for a reason.

[fuzz_factor]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Here is one for the R/H :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU

A big +1 on this. I started playing bass around a year ago. I really enjoy playing fingerstyle but my right wrist and forearm would really hurt after a while. After seeing Todd's video and trying the floating thumb technique, I can now play for hours with NO right arm/wrist pain. I also find it easier, more efficient and more natural than planting my thumb on the pickup or strings (even though my thumb is a bit shorter than Todd's and it doesn't work quite as well as a mute).

As to the left hand, aside from all the other advice in this thread, I'd recommend getting a wide strap, perhaps made of neoprene) to relieve some of the weight of the bass. I really think some of my left wrist and arm problems are caused more by the weight of the bass than my fretting technique. And this despite the fact that I have a fairly light P-bass.

[Vendele197]

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

You don't say if the fracture was at the same point

Both fractures were from snowboarding accidents. I'm not sure if they were in the exact same place, but I'm sure they were pretty close.

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

I would get better positions and employ a more basic technique to cope with what you really need.

Like mentioned before, my formal instruction on bass has been limited to DB, some jazz, but most classical. I've been trying for a while to transfer technique instruction from DB to BG because that's what I've been taught, which I believe is why I've been dealing with a lot of wrist bend at the lower frets. On DB, those same notes cause my arm/wrist/hand at just about eye level, and at the height, keeping my wrist straight, etc. is much easier than doing so in a horizontal scenario.

One last point... Thanks for listening.

[Rune Bivrin]

Originally Posted by INTP

Electric Bass is a very physical instrument and requires a lot of hand strength.

I strongly (pun intended) disagree. The strength needed to play electric bass is something you've had since you were 10 years old. If you need strength doing it, you're doing it wrong. Particularly for the fretting hand. Which leads to the following:

Originally Posted by INTP

I also see that you're fingering in the middle of the frets, which might be contributing to the tension. When I fret just behind the fret wire (almost on top of it), it feels more relaxed. I also second the suggestion to get your palm of the back of the fingerboard. It may feel better now, because you feel stronger that way, but it will definitely slow you down going forward.

Absolutely true. The difference in required force when you fret just behind the fret as opposed to right betweeen the frets is big.

In addition, there's often a tendency to fret harder than what's necessary. Practice applying little force by fretting a note and then gradualy releasing pressure until you get fret buzz. Chances are you'll be surprised at how little force is really needed.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Rune Bivrin

I strongly (pun intended) disagree. The strength needed to play electric bass is something you've had since you were 10 years old. If you need strength doing it, you're doing it wrong. Particularly for the fretting hand. Which leads to the following:

I find this is a statement just repeated with no basis in fact. The definition of strength is the same a "strength in character, or " a strong smell". The average 10 year old has not the "strength" or power, which will give them the stamina and dexterity to play a bass guitar with the margins required to do is safely and compedently. A child of that age has not generaly reached puberty, so the body has not yet fully developed. The stresses and strains in joints on a still developing body are greatly under estimated with such a statement. Yet it is usualy cited to justify such points as it is mis-understood and mis-interpreted. Point of fact...anyone starting to play a bass it is all physical, your hands and body cannot cope with it, that's why it takes time to develop.
If i give a bass to a 10 year old, a 16 year old and a 21 year old i know which one will struggle the most physicaly...the 10 year old, its a matter of anatomy.

[Rune Bivrin]

I'm not saying a 10-year old has what it takes to play bass without effort. There are certainly aspects of strength that are required to carry the bass and having it hanging from your shoulders. No argument there.

But as far as fretting goes, the strength required is minimal unless your bass is poorly set up (or you just prefer the strings Jamerson style). Just try fretting as softly as you can without fret buzz, and you'll find it is really minimal.

Dexterity? I can assure you my two children of 9 and 10 are far more dexterous than me, and their coordination is close to mine (not that that says much ).

Where they fall short is in reach and general strength, but that is very likely not relevant to the OP-s issues of wrist pain. Until one has weeded out lacking technique, strength building shouldn't be a top priority.

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by Rune Bivrin

Dexterity? I can assure you my two children of 9 and 10 are far more dexterous than me, and their coordination is close to mine (not that that says much ).

Where they fall short is in reach and general strength, but that is very likely not relevant to the OP-s issues of wrist pain. Until one has weeded out lacking technique, strength building shouldn't be a top priority.

I take your point, and yes children have dexterity more than an adult, but we all had that? So where does it go? As we get older the need for this dexterity/flexiblity goes as smaller foints fuse to create bigger joints and muscles build to cope with the on-set of puberty where the body will go through rapid change. This is one of the reason why teenagers become clumsy, akward moving and seem to lack control of there bodies, the body the are developing is faster than the brain can co-ordinate. As children we need this flexibility/dexterity to protect us from injury, hence the reason healthy children bounce if you get my meaning. In adults me need strenth, so unless the flexibility and dexterity is developed it is lost. But this is not a natural thing to develop so there will be a trade off in later life

On the other point there is lots of merit to building the strength and dexterity, then the technique. You should build up and develop in order to carry out the function (technique), not the other way around. This is why injuries occur because the body cannot cope with the pressure being put on it. Playing bass looks innocent enough, but it has the where withall, like any physical activity, to do damage if the person is not fit enough to handle it.

In the link is a good feature about guitar related injuries(guitar, bass guitar, its the same principal in anatomy)
http://www.acguitar.com/issues/ag93/handinjury.shtml

[Rune Bivrin]

I guess we'll just have to disagree. A strong and tense tendon flexing over a bent wrist is far more likely to cause issues down the road than a relaxed weak tendon going straight over the wrist.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong with physical excercise, as long as you pay attention to technique. Particularly neck, shoulders and back are areas that can take a hit from the weight of a 6kg piece of wood hanging there for hours on end.