Speed-sters

[Nooboy]

Hi all,
My situation is this. For 6 weeks now, I've been trying to learn this riff that is played in straight 16th's going at 125 BPM. How I started practice is by setting my metronome to 40 BPM and in the days and weeks worked it up. Currently my cap is at 90BPM, it has stayed there for the last 2 weeks, which is why i'm slightly concerned. My issue here is that I am unable to reach that speed after 6 weeks of practice. Is it because my practice method is wrong? Or is 6 weeks too soon to reach that tempo?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[Michael Case]

Other than starting slowly and building up to the tempo how are you practicing? Starting slowly is a great idea. Are you just expecting to turn up the metronome and play it at tempo? Each tempo, especially when you get in the 100+ range, will offer new challenges. I say go up to 100 and work it out. Don't be discouraged, we all learn differently.

[mambo4]

16ths at 125 BPM is blazingly fast...even at 90 bpm its an impressive accomplishment, so don't sell yourself short. Maybe the original player was "cheating" in some way:

Was the original riff played with the same Right Hand technique you are using? If the original was played with a pick, and you are using two fingers, you may be physically limited. It's much easier to play fast with a pick. Equal speed with the 2 fingers requires a pretty refined technique IMHO.

Also, check your left hand fingering to see if there are other ways to finger it. Maybe the original uses lots of open strings and hammer-ons/ pull-offs. these can also make fast playing easier.

another possibility is an echo delay...like "One of these Days" by Pink Floyd....

High speeds are generally achieved with a lighter touch, low action, and practice like you have already invested...
But don't take my word for it, I'm usually playing quarter notes

[spade2you]

6 weeks is WAY too soon to expecting those sorts of speeds.

The key to playing fast is to learn how to play soft. This will take time, but playing hard and fast will only make you tired quickly. You must learn the minimum it takes to play a note clearly. I'd also suggest learning how to use 3 fingers to play roots of 4.

[neptoon]

one other thing...starting as slowly as you did, you can play each note quite deliberately, if that makes any sense...as you sped up, you have probably been keeping that same intensity...try relaxing and working on playing more legato...also curious exactly what riff it is you're working on...the other guys may have it right when saying that the player is using some other technique to get the lick you're working on

[78bass]

Go full speed for a few rounds per day. Even if you don't nail it I find that to be helpfull.
Then slow it down.

[Foreman_]

There's a really good lesson on www.playbassnow.com that MarlowDK came up with, it's under speed training in his practice tips menu. Check it out, it has helped me a lot!

[Vakmere]

what purpose does it serve to play that fast or is this for a personal best speed record time?

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by 78bass

Go full speed for a few rounds per day. Even if you don't nail it I find that to be helpfull.
Then slow it down.

Yes and no. I've seen many a musician playing faster than they can and it often leads to many problems and bad habits to work around not being able to do it naturally. I think we've all heard a guitard or two who didn't learn the tune at a slower speed, thus the faster speeds were a mess of mistakes magnified.

[Lichtaffen]

You know, this is a really good question Nooboy is asking. I myself have been trying to work things out with the same method.

Originally Posted by mambo4

Was the original riff played with the same Right Hand technique you are using? If the original was played with a pick, and you are using two fingers, you may be physically limited. It's much easier to play fast with a pick. Equal speed with the 2 fingers requires a pretty refined technique IMHO.

What do you do when you use two fingers and the original line was played with one finger? I have no idea how James Jamerson can make that one finger move that fast!

Have you tried using a sponge under the strings near the bridge to help you mute strings? I find it puts less stress on you as far as having to mute and pluck at the same time. Sounds a little more staccato also.

Seriously, what is the riff you're trying to learn. I'm curious too.
Ara

[Michael Case]

I think you should use a bottle brush between the nut and the tuning pegs.

[Nooboy]

Hi all,
Thanks for the really quick replies. This is like, the fastest response time i ever got.lol.

First of all let me apologize on a really bad typo, its not 125BPM, its more like 100-110. Sorry about that. But my problem still stands. Capp-ed at 90BPM

Thanks again for all the advices given, i'll try them out soon. Oh, about playing with 3 fingers, do you just go ahead trying with 3 fingers (Index,mid,ring) or is there like, a proper startup technique to follow?

Just to address some of the questions like what song is this. It the bass solo part of the song "salvation is here" by hillsongs. I felt that its a really good challenge to myself to learn the solo, with hopes that it'll increase my speed and note clarity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OleZY4TeXx8

Above is the video by the actual dude who played that,slighty corny but yea, that's him. May not seem like 100BPM but in the live album he played it at 100BPM.

Once again, thanks lots in advance!

[metalbass777]

In the old days how did musicians learn? There was no way to slow a record down without changing the pitch. They must of learned the songs at full speed.

[78bass]

My comment was based on teachings that worked for me.
I am not a teacher, nor an expert on technique.
Try everything.
Consider this one goal only. Many more to come.
Good luck!

Next you might try a ballad.

[Bass Troll]

Originally Posted by Vakmere

what purpose does it serve to play that fast or is this for a personal best speed record time?

Maybe because thats how the piece was written? Don't be so narrow minded.
TS, although this speed is definitely accomplishable with two fingers, you may notice very quick improvement in your speed if you start to use three, in a strict 3-2-1-3-2-1 pattern. Keep practicing!

[basmartin]

Try playing with a lighter touch until you nail it and then dig in some more.

[Nooboy]

Hi all,
Once again thanks for all your replies. I managed to find the live video of the song. I believe it much faster then the first video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl3pmnGNRuQ

The bass solo starts at 2:18.

Originally Posted by Bass Troll

in a strict 3-2-1-3-2-1 pattern.

Thanks for the suggestion!! By doing in a 3-2-1-3-2-1 pattern, do u mean index-mid-ring or ring-mid-index or mid-index-ring? Sorry, kinda confused. Lol.

[Bass Troll]

Originally Posted by Nooboy

Thanks for the suggestion!! By doing in a 3-2-1-3-2-1 pattern, do u mean index-mid-ring or ring-mid-index or mid-index-ring? Sorry, kinda confused. Lol.

No problem.
It really depends on what you find most natural. Personally I go ring-mid-index, but some people find the other variations easier.
The one thing I will advise against is index-mid-ring-mid, because it at least partially defeats the purpose of this technique (you're still using your index every two notes). But again, it really is up to personal preference, Steve Bailey often uses the index-mid-ring-mid technique.
And remember, although I said strict 3,2,1, you don't have to. For example, if there was four groups of three, and then two groups of two, you could play it 3,2,1-3,2,1-3,2,1-3,2,1-2,1-2,1.

[spiltmilk_2000]

I have a similar problem... although after about 4 months of playing a riff every day I'm still stuck on about 90bpm. Im determined not to increase the tempo unless im playing it cleanly though

The song is 'Hit me with your rhythm stick' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQrp8WpQHHU to see marlowedk playing how it should be done!) which i guess is around 105bpm-ish...

I specifically chose to work on this riff as i thought it'd help build up right hand finger speed with string crossing etc.... and it has to some extent - just not as much as i'd hoped since i hat the 90bpm plateau a while back.

I guess there's nothing else for it but to keep playing at 90bpm and trying to up it even 1bpm per week. its driving me mad though and has completely ruined my enjoyment of the song which is a huge shame... Im just too single minded to give up though

So, you are not alone....

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by Nooboy

Hi all,
Once again thanks for all your replies. I managed to find the live video of the song. I believe it much faster then the first video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl3pmnGNRuQ

The bass solo starts at 2:18.



Thanks for the suggestion!! By doing in a 3-2-1-3-2-1 pattern, do u mean index-mid-ring or ring-mid-index or mid-index-ring? Sorry, kinda confused. Lol.

Ah yes, "Salvation is Here." The bane of my existence as a church bass player. I STILL have trouble with it despite the hours of practice I have put into it. In fact I'm not even going to be playing it at this year's youth camp I'm attending since I can't quite nail it at the level I'm proud of, so I let another guy play it.

The thing is that song is about 90-100bpm with 16th notes (4 notes per beat). The challenge isn't playing the 16th notes that fast since it can be done. The real problem lies in the string and note changes, which come at seemingly awkward points, done in a strict 16th note rhythm. There's pretty much no rests or rhythm changes, though you can "fake it" a little if you get tired.

This video will help you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOUsADCgLvE

It's how Hillsong United's bass player, Matt Tennikoff, plays the song. However, it's an octave lower than the beginning of the original version and usually how he plays it live nowadays. There's three recorded versions of the song. The latest version, off of the I Heart Revolution double CD, doesn't the octave higher part of the riff (it's also faster than both of the older versions). It's understandable because it's pretty hard to reach the frets on standard basses. But if you want to play it an octave higher just position your hands to the correct part of the fret board and play the same pattern.

You don't need to play the song with three fingers. Just work at it slowly and develop the accuracy and muscle memory. You can either work with your metronome or use a free program called Best Practice to slow down and mp3 and play along with it:

Best Practice
http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/

Good luck! It's a challenging song.