speeding up fingerstyle

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Disagree greatly.

Resistance training is a type of recovery process. Working the mechanic's of your hand in the opposite direction will build dexterity and consistancy. Playing aggressively is a "pulling-in motion", so you need to do the opposite in order to grow the skill. Another thing I disgree with you, is if you play slowly all the time, you WILL end only being able to play slowly. If you want to play fast, at some point, you must practice aggressively

My turn to disagree. Reistance training is not a recovery process - it tears down muscle in order to build muscle (strength) during recovery. The thing is, you don't need more strength to play bass. It might be easier to push strings down, but you won't be able to do it any faster.

True, you must practice at speed to gain speed - but you've got to put in far more slow work, and the speed will come naturally.

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Disagree greatly.

Resistance training is a type of recovery process. Working the mechanic's of your hand in the opposite direction will build dexterity and consistancy. Playing aggressively is a "pulling-in motion", so you need to do the opposite in order to grow the skill. Another thing I disgree with you, is if you play slowly all the time, you WILL end only being able to play slowly. If you want to play fast, at some point, you must practice aggressively

I practice both ways - deliberately holding back and aggresively. So I do agree with on some parts, but not all.

I find I can play much faster when I relax rather than playing aggressively.

The key is, before attaining speed, you need to get accuracy first. So playing slowly is the key. If you can't play something right slowly and cleanly, don't even bother trying to play it fast.

But I'm not saying to ONLY play slowly... once you have something down, then you can speed it up.

[Correlli]

All I can say is, my methods work

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

All I can say is, my methods work

Okay, if it works for you, I definitely can't argue with that then.

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by lowphatbass

get a pick!!
Just Kidding!!
Many people get hung-up with their right hand, but it is most benificial to approach speed with your fretting hand. Good technique than applies ease of motion, in other words have your hand and fingers already in the position they need to be ahead of time so all you need to do is lightly press down to make the note available for your right hand to play. The difficult thing is that applying this to it's full effect requires SLOWING things down. I can't really ASSume anything about your technique as it stands now, but if you are practicing alot and not getting anywere you may need to "break yourself down" a bit and start simple. The other thing that can be frustrating is the rate at which "plateaus"(sp?) are reached. At first we are making huge leaps in our playing ability regularly, but things slow down a bit after a while and the practice time we need to devote becomes greater, and sometimes we find we have less time to practice as we start playing more. Some of the improvements we make may be in theory or musicianship and aren't emmediately obvious to us when playing our instruments.
Oh yea, write this down on a big piece of paper and stick it somewhere you can see it at all times when you are practicing:

"STAY RELAXED!!!"

I was going to write something here, but you've pretty much nailed what I was going to say.

[Blunt]

There was a guitar player issue many years ago that was directed at classical guitar players and talked about the speed "burst". Now this was playing a group of sixteenth notes then playing upbeats for the rest of the bar. That is play 8 sixteenth notes then play up beats for beats 3 and 4.
Or reduce it to a 2/4 bar or 3/4 bar. The trick is that you get hyperspeed in short bursts. It is an incredibly effective technique for single string fast stuff. Its almost like you fool the muscle memory. Then extend it to the whole bar and beyond. Its like weight training. But then again the note selection is up to you.

[popinfresh]

One thing I don't always agree on is the curved fingers and light touch. I suppose it can be good for speed. But I find I lose all tone when I play like that..

[Correlli]

Just add, I'll put my money where my mouth is. My debut solo recording will be out about Oct/Nov, and there will be a couple of aggressive tunes in there.

[lowphatbass]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Just add, I'll put my money where my mouth is. My debut solo recording will be out about Oct/Nov, and there will be a couple of aggressive tunes in there.

Dude!!
It IS frustrating to be in minority isn't it. To me your "rubber band workout" just sounds like a good way to hurt myself not to mention time wasted that I could be practicing. You are just going to have to be satisfied in knowing that it has helped your playing because you're just not going to get a lot positive feedback on an excercise like that. I'm not trolling for a response here, just letting you know that I have been in your position, be secure in your frustration Kiwi.

[Chili]

I think it is easyier to play faster when hitting the strings lightly and when ur more relaxed, but with my style of playing that wouldnt werk for me, when i solo i go for the agressive but slightly less speedy, Basicly like Flea, he hits the strings hard when soloing and it takes alot out of you, so u need to build more finger strengh to play like that, but if you want to relax and play light and swift u dont need to have as much of that finger strengh...in my veiw

[QED314]

I had the same problem with speed for a long time. When I sat down and really analyzed the issue, one of the things that helped me was to concentrate on ALWAYS alternating your two fingers. You'd be surprised how often you may unknowingly double up on a finger during a run, which will throw off, not always the rhythm, but the flow. This is especially important when changing strings, try not to "drag" one finger across several frets when descending. When practicing, play your scales slowly and makes sure you ALWAYS alternate fingers.

If you ever watch the Jaco Pastorius lesson DVD, he mentions that this was one of the most difficult things to truly master all of the time. It was how he got that amazing precision and clarity, note for note, on Donna Lee.

QED

[Oldie but noobe]

I am just learning, 3 months, but I have to agree with the slow practice. It is working for me now, but also way back in my early 20s I trained marshal arts and we did the sllooooow repitions over and over and over. we went for perfection. Then the movements became reflexes . It was as if you did not think or even realize you did it. IT just happened. Like that seen in Karate kid when he gets frustrated with the wax on wax off and the master shows him how the movements turned into reflexes

I know your frustration try learning with 55 yr old fingers

[Correlli]

Interesting discussion. It's made me think a bit more about my practice methods. I've started exploring more about "passive vs. aggressive" practicing techniques. I should add also, that what I mean by "aggressive", would be the same as hitting a golf ball.

[wurmhole]

I find that I can play much quicker near the bridge. I think Jaco mentions that in his video as well. I have to be very deliberate about muting, but I don't find that to be a bad thing either.

[seanm]

I really like my BT-1. It can slow down 8%, 16%, 32% or 50% (half speed). I take the songs and slow them down 32%. If I really can't play at 32%, I go to 50% but I find the tone gets really weird.

When I can play at 32%, I go to 16%. When I can play that, I usually go to full since 8% slowdown is kinda useless IMHO.

Much more fun playing along to the CD slowed down than to a metronome. I still use the metronome, but not as much as I used to.

One of the things I don't like about the BT-1 is I can't slow down *and* change pitch at the same time. For example: Jumping Jack Flash is in A# on the CD I needed to learn it in B. So I had to learn it in A# slowed down, then transpose to B at full speed. Ok, not much of a change but I wish I could have learned it slowly in B.

[kserg]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You have all the strength you need to play bass already. What you need is dexterity, and that comes with slow, careful practice. It seems counterintuitive, but you'll get faster if you practice slowly.

He is right you know

Thanks bud

Cheers

[Correlli]

I was thinking alot more about the relationship between golf and bass playing, so I went had my first ever round of golf. To my utter amazement (and pleasure), playing golf was almost the same experience as playing bass. I absolutely loved smashing the snot out of a golf ball. I also love shredding the living daylights out of my bass too. So there was one relationship between the two. But when it came to putting, that was a completely different game.

Like golf, I think it is wise to have more than one club (technique for bass) in my arsenal. Imagine playing a round of golf with a putter.

[cirwin]

How about "all of the above"? Strength training is important - you can't run fast with weak muscles. But strength by itself isn't enough. To develop accuracy in the speed, start off slow - ALWAYS USE A METRONOME OR DRUM BOX. Make sure you can play the exercise cleanly and accurate at a slow rate of speed, then increase it several clicks at a time. When you have trouble maintaining the accuracy, stop and play it at that speed until you've got it and then start slowly increasing the speed. And realize that this is a life-time process. If you're trying to attain a particular goal in a week, you're probably going to fail. (It's like trying to lose 10 lbs in a week. Even if you do, you'll just regain it!)

My $.02, not adjusted for inflation....

Charlie Irwin

[adisu]

Originally Posted by QED314

I had the same problem with speed for a long time. When I sat down and really analyzed the issue, one of the things that helped me was to concentrate on ALWAYS alternating your two fingers. You'd be surprised how often you may unknowingly double up on a finger during a run, which will throw off, not always the rhythm, but the flow. This is especially important when changing strings, try not to "drag" one finger across several frets when descending. When practicing, play your scales slowly and makes sure you ALWAYS alternate fingers.

If you ever watch the Jaco Pastorius lesson DVD, he mentions that this was one of the most difficult things to truly master all of the time. It was how he got that amazing precision and clarity, note for note, on Donna Lee.

QED

+1
Absolutely Right, many bass player don't learn how to alternate between their two fingers at all times and that make them lose speed.
Also the finger they use more which is most of the times the index finger work harder and get tired faster.

As QED said If you'll master the art of alternating between your fingers all the time ,you are on the "yellow brick road" to achieve the speed you are looking for.

BTW I find it hard to alternate right between my fingers when i move from string to string and the left hands fingers move to the opposite direction from the right hands fingers.
I guess it's a matter of coordination.