STAMINA ISSUES

[dit101]

Hello All,

I am a newbie, been playing bass for a little over a year now.

I love playing and all, but i am having problems building up my stamina. My left fretting hand cramps up really easily and pretty much always in the same spot, the tendon between my thumb and index finger.

The pain is not all that bad, but my fear is that if i keep playing i might injure myself so i pretty much stop when i feel the pain. I have had tendinitis before in my shoulder (old tennis injury) and it was a huge hassle to get rid of (after 5 years i would say my shoulder is still not 100%) so i really don't want to go through that again.


i am also wondering if maybe there are some problems with my thumb placing on the neck. i have tried different approaches but really don't see much improvement

I am 6'5 and have big hands don't know if that has any effect on this
also, i am playing a P bass, maybe switching to a thinner J neck might help?....

do you guys think this kind of pain is normal for my level? do you think i should i play through it so i build more stamina or by doing so do i seriously expose myself to injury?

i appreciate any input
thanks a lot
D.

[pasta4lnch]

well first and foremost go see a doctor!

having said that, I loose feelings in my hands and occasionally get cramps where you explained. I've been to see a few docs but nothing positive so far. . . I think, in my case at least, it's a blood flow issue. It's worse on guitar than on bass - probably because my arm is tucked in more w/ guitar. . . let us know if you discover something definitive. I don't think you'll be causing any long term issues - but there may be a better way to play in your case and developing habits at this stage can be hard to undo . . .

[fearceol]

It might be a good idea to get it checked out by a doctor. DONT play through the pain. Having said that, here are some helpful tips.
Make sure you warm up (and down) with gentle stretches for about five minutes before each session. Dont dive headlong into fast playing at the start. Play scales or chords slowly until your hand warms up. Take regular breaks. Drinking plenty of fluids is a big help. Your technique could also be a factor. See link for good L/H technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA

[HeadyVan Halen]

Yeah make sure your thumb is pushing away from the neck..Watch a video of Jimi Hendrix on youtube....NOT LIKE THAT!!.. relax your hand, you shouldn't be real tense at all in that hand.
I would say start there. Do you do any heavy lifting (weights, for work, construction etc) I know when I do my hands definitely will cramp easier.

[dit101]

Originally Posted by pasta4lnch

well first and foremost go see a doctor!

having said that, I loose feelings in my hands and occasionally get cramps where you explained. I've been to see a few docs but nothing positive so far. . . I think, in my case at least, it's a blood flow issue. It's worse on guitar than on bass - probably because my arm is tucked in more w/ guitar. . . let us know if you discover something definitive. I don't think you'll be causing any long term issues - but there may be a better way to play in your case and developing habits at this stage can be hard to undo . . .

hi, thanks so much for your answer. it's funny cause i also play a bit of guitar and with the guitar i don't have this problem. i assume it might be due to the fact that the guitar neck is thinner so i don't stress that tendon so much.. i think it has something to do with my thumb positioning on the neck, but so far still have not found a completely "comfortable" position.
i try to keep it straight and parallel to the fretline, but in a very shot period of time my thumb independently decides to lie horizontal and i think it's there where i build up too much tension...

or perhaps maybe it's just normal "beginner" pain and just need to play through it a bit more to build strength..

[dit101]

Originally Posted by fearceol

It might be a good idea to get it checked out by a doctor. DONT play through the pain. Having said that, here are some helpful tips.
Make sure you warm up (and down) with gentle stretches for about five minutes before each session. Dont dive headlong into fast playing at the start. Play scales or chords slowly until your hand warms up. Take regular breaks. Drinking plenty of fluids is a big help. Your technique could also be a factor. See link for good L/H technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA

that's some great advice...thanks!!!

[pasta4lnch]

^^ +1 especially in light of your last post. I started stretching before I play and I noticed a big difference. Not in the numbness but on longer gigs and times when I'm practicing a lot.

anyone have any good links to a proper stretching technique?

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by pasta4lnch

anyone have any good links to a proper stretching technique?

There are lots on You Tube if you do a search. Here is one to get you started.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XsLRQFV7rY

[shadow_FIX]

In my case it was my technique for the most part...I played too hard and fingered the notes too hard, so I would cramp and fatigue easily.

[stratovani]

dit101 - question: How do you sling your bass? Do you play it low down against your crotch area or high up against your chest? I'm of the opinion that either way you're asking for trouble. If your bass is down low your left hand will be forced to arch up at the wrist, impeding blood flow to the hands and placing undue stress on the tendons. And if your bass sits high up on your chest, the way jazzers like it, the same problems develop for your right hand. Your bass should be sitting directly over your belly button, with the headstock arched up at anywhere from 30 to 45 degrees. That way both wrists are straight and much more relaxed, and that feeling will translate to your whole body feeling more relaxed and natural, and your playing itself will show improvement. Now I'm no doctor, but I've been playing guitar and bass since the early 70s. I've been playing with my guitar or bass centered right on my navel, and I've never had a problem with my hands.

[Marginal Tom]

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV...

Don't play through the pain. The problem almost certainly isn't a lack a stamina. It's more likely tension, improper technique or a medical issue. Are you trying to push your fingers through the fingerboard? Have you asked a music teacher or a more experienced player to check out your hand positioning?

I'd also suggest borrowing a jazz bass or another bass with a smaller neck if you can, or trying one out at a music store.

[Icculus]

Once your medical issues are resolved, pick up this book...

[dit101]

Thank you all for your responses.

i am going to start warming up properly and let you know if it improves or not.
if not will have a teacher check my hand positioning i think that is what makes the most sense
I think the main issue is the tension, in the sense that i should relax my left hand more..i definitely hope so and it's not a medical issue instead. That would be a bummer

again thanks to all for your help, I will keep you posted ..thanks!!!

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by dit101

do you guys think this kind of pain is normal for my level? do you think i should i play through it so i build more stamina or by doing so do i seriously expose myself to injury?

Playing a musical instrument - including the electric bass - is NOT a type of physical sport. So unless you are unusually weak due to disability, old age or some other type of physical impairment, "stamina" should not even enter into it.

The fact that you are experiencing any significant degree of stress as a consequence of playing means that something is wrong. The fact that you are experiencing pain means that something is seriously, dangerously wrong.

Stop playing now. Consult a medical specialist. Then get some technique lessons from a qualified bass instructor. Learn to play the instrument correctly - before you injure yourself seriously and permanently.

MM

[Zerofox Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Icculus

Once your medical issues are resolved, pick up this book...

+1. I have that book and find it very useful.

[waynobass]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Playing a musical instrument - including the electric bass - is NOT a type of physical sport. So unless you are unusually weak due to disability, old age or some other type of physical impairment, "stamina" should not even enter into it.

+1. Maybe the pain is nature's way of saying you should be a guitarist only.

[Spino]

I also play Git +Bass Try playing without your thumb touching the neck ,play some scales, then bring your thumb into play .I find that doing this helps getting your grip right ,too much pressure from the thumb causes the rest of your fingers to act in weak way ,also your fingers should be slightly bent . I've just got the last bit of tension out of my left hand by playing repeated Samba patterns or simple 3 note ostinatos for 16 bars then stop for 2 bars and start again , repeat 3 time every day for a week and you'll see improvement .Just being aware of flaws in your technique will cause natural improvement .The post about strap adjustment and keeping your wrists straight is also dead on .G'luck

[dit101]

Hi guys,

first of all let me thank all of you who posted, all your advice was really helpful.

So this is what i did: first of all, i started warming up well and i alreayd saw some improvements, then this week end i found out there was a live jazz band playing at a bar right next to my house, so i decided to go see them and try get some "hands on" help.

the guys were really good, a modern jazz 5-piece, all seasoned musicians in their 50's and 60s. When they finished i armed myself with courage, bought a round of beers for everyone and walked up to the bassist and explained my problem. The guy was really really nice so he gave me his bass and he had me play for him for about 5 minutes (with no amp of course as there were still customers at the bar) and the first verdicts started coming out:


according to him, i start out well with a proper techinque, but when i pick up speed is where it all goes sour. What happens is that the faster ago, the more i tense my left hand until i start getting all cramped. By now all the band joined in and everyone started giving advices on how to avoid this (it was actually pretty funny as they all seemed pretty interested and opinionated). We tried different ways to handle/grip the bass until the guitarist suggested i try placing my thumb not in the middle of the neck as i used to do, but instead on the top part of the neck (i guess kinda like a Hendrix grip). He argued he had friends with very big hands like mine and that's how many of them played to avoid cramping etc etc.

Anyways i tired that and after a little bit of getting used to it, WOW what a difference!!!!!! on sunday i was able to practice for over 1 hour and hardly cramped up at all when before after 20min i would alrerady have to stop for a bit to stretch it etc etc !!!

A part from this great tip, they gave me some simple excercises on strength bulding and some practice advice:" don't focus on speed but on techinque instead. start slow and pick up pace little by little always focusing on the left hand". If i notice it tensing up, i lower the speed again and so on until my left hand positioning becomes automatic and then can start focusing on speed etc.

But the best part of whole thing though is that i also found a teacher as now the bassist will give me lessons once a week, so i guess there will be more improvements in every aspect of my playing !!!!...

Again thanks to all for your help!!!!!!!!
Sorry for the long post, but I love stories that have a happy ending

[Fergie Fulton]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Playing a musical instrument - including the electric bass - is NOT a type of physical sport. So unless you are unusually weak due to disability, old age or some other type of physical impairment, "stamina" should not even enter into it.

Playing a musical instrument is physical movement and such it falls under the same conditions as any physical sport. The fact that the hands are used mainly means it is not an anaerobic, as all things we do need air, but it is certainly not aerobic in the sense we have to breathe heavy to produce the energy from oxygen.

Playing bass, piano, typing on a keyboard, working with you hands are all the same thing to the body, it is physical movement and thus needs energy, dexterity and a degree of fitness to sustain it. So stamina will enter into it, as tired or sore hands is lack of stamina, a thing all new players suffer with. Only the brain tells us the difference between playing a piano and typing, as far as the neuro pathways and muscles are concerned they are the same thing requiring the same sort of energy .

Anyone suffering such problems should look to diet and in particular hydration. There are many good foods that will help in these problems and many that can hinder. Warming up and stretching always helps as does understanding your own hands history and daily workload.

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by HeadyVan Halen

Yeah make sure your thumb is pushing away from the neck..Watch a video of Jimi Hendrix on youtube....NOT LIKE THAT!!..

Yeah. He died.

...But seriously though, this:

Originally Posted by fearceol

DONT play through the pain.