Stand up or double bass

[basscamel 420]

Why do stand up bass players not use their ring finger on the lower register of the bass?

[FretlessMainly]

I can offer two good reason why not to; however, your statement conveys a sense of absolute, which is incorrect. I used to, for example.

I have fairly large hands, and when I took up double bass in 1992, I had 12 years of fretted electric experience. I was able to play scales on the doube bass using electric bass patterns (i.e., using the ring finger, even in half-position). In 2002, I suffered a playing injury to the ulnar nerve in my fingering hand (left). I was playing a low G during warm-ups, and I'd been gigging very heavily for a couple of months on the double bass. I felt a zap go from my finger all the way into my elbow. I played the gig with no problems, but the following day, I couldn't move my left hand ring finger more than a trace, and moving the pinky caused sympathetic movement of the ring finger that hurt like hell.

Six months of rest and some physical therapy later, I was able to re-learn fingerings on double bass. Note: I did absolutely nothing on any musical instrument for six months.

Point #2: Both the middle and ring fingers are "poorly designed" for playing fretless basses of any kind. However, the middle finger is both stronger and slightly better positioned to play that "in between" note between the index finger and pinky.

So, the nutshell is that some people certainly can use their ring finger on double bass in the lowert register, but I'm here to tell you that you'd be better off not doing it.

[LM Bass]

On a double bass, in the lower register, you can usually only reach a full tone. To get the notes in tune, the fingering 1-2-4 was adopted, although the Italian system, uses 1-3-4 fingering.

There are probably going to be several posts following this one from people who are militant about either using/avoiding this finger. Here they come now!

Like many things in bass playing, there are many opinions and options. For me, playing in tune is the main goal, and I cannot play 1-2-3 in semitones in the low register, and have the notes be tune. When I teach, I always emphasize the learning of the standard "Simandl" fingerings, then I make people aware of other options later. I do use all four fingers from about C or D on the G-string upwards.

[Jazzdogg]

I was taught the Simandl method for double bass when I started playing in '68, and because my hands were small, I applied the technique to fretless electric bass until I became comfortable and proficient enough to remain in tune using the 1-2-3-4 method; when I first started playing DB, my teacher thought it was so important that I learn to use my ring finger and pinkie in unison that he had me tape them together.

I teach the Simandl method when I teach middle-school students electric bass, and it works well for them, too.

In addition to improving one's ability to play a fretless bass in tune, the Simandl method provides a great foundation for sight-reading.

[chuck3]

for me, it's pretty simple. Not only was it how I was taught, but I burn out my pinky if I don't support it with the ring finger. But play it how you like if it works for you ...

That's for upright. On bass guitar, I really don't think about my fingering, I just play.

[JimmyM]

I use my ring finger on upright all the time. I so don't get the not wanting to use it. Sometimes I'll skip it, but if it's easier for me to use it, I use it. Don't care if some old dead guy thinks I shouldn't...back then, uprights had super high action and mine is pretty low.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

Unless it is a 1/2 scale or 1/4 scale, it is really difficult to play in tune playing 1, 2, 3, 4, in first few positions...

Although, once in about the 5th position, I use 1, 2, 3, 4,... but before that... 1, 2, 4,

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

Unless it is a 1/2 scale or 1/4 scale, it is really difficult to play in tune playing 1, 2, 3, 4, in first few positions...

Although, once in about the 5th position, I use 1, 2, 3, 4,... but before that... 1, 2, 4,

I'll do that to a certain extent, but if it's easier for me to grab a note using my ring finger, I'm not going to use my middle finger or little finger just because it's "by the book." Maybe I would if I took lessons

[Marty Forrer]

I use the Simandl fingering too, I just physically cant reach otherwise. I now play bass guitar that way too.

[LM Bass]

Studying bass is a bit like becoming a parent -until you have done it, you really don't know what it's all about. (Not a slag on JimmyM, or others who haven't taken lessons)

I didn't really "get" the need for Simandl fingerings until I had learned them. Now, they are my "default" and other fingerings are options I sometimes use. Having a disciplined left hand allows for better intonation, less fatigue, better shifting, less time figuring out fingerings etc. So, for me at least, it's been really helpful.

My bass hero, Gary Karr, is constantly encouraging people to try to find their own fingerings and not to be locked into the prevailing fingering dogma. So there's lots of different viewpoints on this.

[Russell L]

Because the notes are too damn far apart, that's why. Not saying you have to skip the ring finger, though. Do whatever ya want and don't worry about it.

[MonetBass]

Because when you're a kid (10 for me) starting out on the DB, it's just impossible to finger a whole step using 1-3. Unless you've been held back a few grades.

And +1 to the ring supporting the pinky. It gives added strength and results in a better tone, at least for a kid. So if you've been using that fingering for a few years, it becomes a habit.

Yes, I use my ring finger on EB and DB, particularly in the upper positions. But scale length is considerably different (34" for EB vs 42" for DB), so that's something to consider.

[Gaius46]

I've noticed that I have much less of a problem with intonation on fretless electric bass using Simandl. It's also seems to be more comfortable and less fatiguing on the left hand.

[Russell L]

I use Simandl on electric, too, most of the time.

[fdeck]

I use Simandl on upright and electric. It's what I was taught, and it's the technique that I can trust to get me through multiple nights of rehearsals and long gigs.

It's worth browsing through the threads on the DB side, where this issue is discussed. It's often mentioned that upright bass is a "physical" instrument, and that incorrect technique can lead to injury. Of course your own individual risk depends on your body, technique, and many other factors. For instance, classical players with professional aspirations need to sustain hours a day of arco practice over an entire lifetime.

Note that learning a complete technique is not just a matter of how many fingers you use, but also involves shifting and a fingering system. A vital part of the Simandl method is fluid shifting.

In my view, the responsible advice for newbies on a general forum is to "play it safe" and learn Simandl from a teacher before trying anything else. If you find that shifting is hampering your speed and intonation, then work on your shifting. You won't be able to avoid position work forever.

If you think that you can play in tune with four fingers, get yourself a tuner and a bow.

[Fran Diaz]

Originally Posted by LM Bass

Studying bass is a bit like becoming a parent -until you have done it, you really don't know what it's all about. (Not a slag on JimmyM, or others who haven't taken lessons)

I didn't really "get" the need for Simandl fingerings until I had learned them. Now, they are my "default" and other fingerings are options I sometimes use. Having a disciplined left hand allows for better intonation, less fatigue, better shifting, less time figuring out fingerings etc. So, for me at least, it's been really helpful.

My bass hero, Gary Karr, is constantly encouraging people to try to find their own fingerings and not to be locked into the prevailing fingering dogma. So there's lots of different viewpoints on this.

big +1.

I have been playing electric bass for 20+ years and DB only for 4 (with a teacher from day one). At this point, I'm starting to use the Simandl fingering (1-2-4) even on electric because it makes sight reading easier for me. I still use the 3rd finger on electric when I go higher up the neck or if I need to play faster notes that require a minor third interval and shipting positions is more stressful for the hand than using 1234.