Steady Eighth Notes

[Jake of Bass]

Originally Posted by Edinburgh_Bass

Still don't agree with any of the single finger technique suggestions - but it is all down to personal taste.

I still firmly believe that SOLID alternative finger technique is far more efficient, less clumsy, smoother and adaptable (same technique for 16th's/32nd's) than plugging away with an index finger.

We've not even mentioned crossing strings...

I agree, but I still can't get perfectly even straight 8ths even after 10-12 years, there's always a slight variation between my middle and index fingers.

And yeah, I see your point about crossing strings. For me, I wasn't really thinking about crossing strings, more so for when playing straight 8ths on root notes only.

[mambo4]

+1 for metronome. The usual advice is once you master slow and even, the speed will come.

i play straight 8's using two fingers, primarily.

One thing I'll do, if i notice unevenness caused by my index finger over powering my middle finger, is swap fingers:

If i am normally playing like this:

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
i m i m i m i m i

I reverse it:

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
m i m i m i m i m

some how i guess I subconsciously play the down beats harder or something, this seems to help.

[Stealth]

Here's an idea if you don't want to stop using two fingers, but want an even straight-8ths tone, that comes from my first bass teacher.

With most people the middle finger is longer and somewhat meatier, which means the tone between it and the index differ by quite a bit. What you do is move it out of the equation and use the index and the ring finger as they're usually the same dimensions. Granted, the ring finger does have the issue of sharing a muscle with the other two fingers surrounding it, but generally you'll get a more even response and tone if you practice using those two.

I've tried the method and occasionally practice that way, although I still focus on the R-M-I-M approach for the extra speed it provides - but give it a shot.

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

I agree, but I still can't get perfectly even straight 8ths even after 10-12 years, there's always a slight variation between my middle and index fingers.

And yeah, I see your point about crossing strings. For me, I wasn't really thinking about crossing strings, more so for when playing straight 8ths on root notes only.

Welcome to the world of being human.

You aren't going to get your notes to come out perfectly every time. Hell, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to have any two notes in a row come out identical in terms of intensity, note duration, and being on-time. But with a compressor, you can smooth out the tiny inconsistencies that 99.999999% of the world couldn't decipher, and you're good to go.

Music has feeling...even grooveless solid eighths.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Welcome to the world of being human.

You aren't going to get your notes to come out perfectly every time. Hell, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to have any two notes in a row come out identical in terms of intensity, note duration, and being on-time. But with a compressor, you can smooth out the tiny inconsistencies that 99.999999% of the world couldn't decipher, and you're good to go.

Music has feeling...even grooveless solid eighths.

I agree with the compressor been able to even out the notes but I don't want to rely on an external piece of gear to make the sound even. It has to come out right in the first place. I don't believe a comp is the cure for bad technic or the wrong approach.

I've been practicing alternate fingers for 30 years already and I can play anything I want starting on the index or the middle and still alternate my fingers so I'm very very good at it BUT there is no way when playing a song "à la AC/DC" I'll get the same vibe or sound with two fingers then I get with my index. It still sounds like dou-da-dou-da instead of dou-dou-dou-dou......

Sly

[rokkitt]

Originally Posted by von buck

One word, metronome.

Andy

yesssssssssss


very slow


1/4 notes

at 60 bpm, 40 bpm if you can stand it.


for 30 mins to an hour a day.


dont play any music but that metronome for ten days

then, after ten days, play a rock and roll song......


you will get it then


allen

[Ed Fuqua]

It's not a matter of which finger is longer or shorter or which is stronger etc. It's a matter of practice; it's a matter of control.

This is an exercise I've gotten from my teacher:

1. set your metronome to 60 bpm and play your major scales up and down two octaves, strictly alternating fingers. If you aren't doing this with a teacher you need to record your practice and BE VERY VERY OBJECTIVE about how cleanly your accomplishing the exercise.
2. when you can play ALL 12 major scales cleanly and strictly alternating fingers, take the nome to 64bpm. Rinse, wash, repeat - when you cleanly execute all 12, move up two more notches until you finally hit 120bpm.
3. bring the nome back down to 60 bpm and start playing 8th notes (which are just quarters at 120bpm, right?) in the following fashion - again strictly alternating fingers accent the 1st eighth note of each group of 4. That is 1 and two and 3 and 4 and 1etc. These are called accent 1 eighth notes.You'll want to take particular care around position shifts, direction shifts etc. because it's THERE that you'll want to default to your index taking the lead, no matter which finger played the prior note.
4. As above, when you cleanly get through all 12 keys, move the nome up; wash, rinse and repeat. Till you hit 120bpm.
5. Take the nome back down to 60bpm and play eighth notes, strictly alternating index and middle in the following fashion - accent the second eight note of a 4 note grouping, that is one AND two and three AND four and. These are accent 2 eighth notes. As above, up to 120.
6. Accent 3 eight notes as above.
7. Accent 4 eighth notes as above
8. Now the fun part, nome comes back to 60bpm and play eighth notes, alternating fingers in the following fashion - for the first group of four 8th notes, accent 1, second group accent 2, third group accent 3, 4th group accent 4, 5th group accent 1, etc. As above up to 120bpm

At that point you should be able to CHOOSE which notes get accented or, alternately CHOOSE that none of them receive an accent.

If you want to continue the exercise you start with unaccented triplets, then accent 1, then accent 2, then accent 3, then mixed groupings as with the final 8th note, first group gets acc 1, second acc 2, etc...

[RDUB]

+1. No matter how fast and even I am with one finger, I can be even faster with two, and some practice makes it really even. (Not that 16th note funk is necessarily supposed to be even - part of making it funky is how you accent the notes!)

[Murphbass]

I feel like I'm pretty even playing more scalar material compared to just playing a stream of, say AAAAAAAA CCCCCCCC GGGGGGGG DDDDDDDD (think U2 or Coldplay-style). Does anyone think it would be better to concentrate on the right hand technique and disregard the scales- maybe just stick to one pitch at a time? Don't get me wrong- I spend about 30 minutes a day working on scales at a wide range of tempos, swung and straight. It seems that either I'm not hearing the choppiness as much when I'm not hanging on one pitch, or I really am playing cleaner on material with more movement.

Thanks for everyone's input- I wasn't expecting such a response.

[debassr]

Sure, focus on your right hand for a while, then focus on your left. Then focus on putting both together - that a fairly common approach.

[bearpaw]

i play 8th notes all the time as i play a lot of rock stuff. if i want the 8th notes to be very steady and constant, i only use one finger. apart from the notes sounding the same, you have to move your right hand in the pulse of the song which helps for a good timing.
metronome is a good thing but can be used too much as well. i think you should keep it 50/50 cause you also wanna be able to keep time without a metronome.
try to find out what differences lenghts of 8th notes make, try to experiment with playing them before, on top or after the beat and get a feeling for that. it's a whole world.

[Silas Martinez]

Originally Posted by JimK

I don't disagree. Although-
I have heard more than a few guys say they will use only one(1) finger for straight/steady 1/8th notes. The same guys will also say the tone is more consistent with the one(1) finger.

IMO, this is true. A single finger has a more consistent attack and decay - the notes 'feel' the same. In my case, at any rate, alternate picking simplifies faster 16th/32nd passages, but there is a perceptible difference in tone between the two fingers. Sometimes that is acceptable or even a good thing, can give a usable 'pulse' - but in many cases, for me, it is something to be avoided.

Now, I do understand that getting consistent attack between the two fingers is goal worth striving for. I do work on it. But it seems to me that the angle of attack triggered by different finger lengths is a rather insurmountable issue.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Edinburgh_Bass

Still don't agree with any of the single finger technique suggestions - but it is all down to personal taste.

I still firmly believe that SOLID alternative finger technique is far more efficient, less clumsy, smoother and adaptable (same technique for 16th's/32nd's) than plugging away with an index finger.

Agreed. However, I do catch myself using one finger occasionally. Regardless, you should be able to do it with alternating fingers even if you like one finger better.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

You aren't going to get your notes to come out perfectly every time. Hell, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to have any two notes in a row come out identical in terms of intensity, note duration, and being on-time. But with a compressor, you can smooth out the tiny inconsistencies that 99.999999% of the world couldn't decipher, and you're good to go.

Never never ever use gear to solve technique problems.

[ysand]

Yeah, is like a guitard using the heaviest distortion to cover his flaws

[Matt Dean]

One finger: index! That's the sound of even 8ths.

What Sly said... I can play steady groovy eighths multiple ways, but I have found that one finger or a pick yields the best result in terms of groove.

Also, where you place the note in the time stream in relation to the drum is a crucial in establishing a solid groove. I'm referring to the pocket here...

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Matt Dean

What Sly said... I can play steady groovy eighths multiple ways, but I have found that one finger or a pick yields the best result in terms of groove.

Also, where you place the note in the time stream in relation to the drum is a crucial in establishing a solid groove. I'm referring to the pocket here...

+1

I think people misunderstand playing steady 8ths in a Rock tune versus basic alternate fingers. I'm practicing alternate fingers since day one (and this was 30 years ago) in every bits of technical stuff I do. I never had to practice one finger technique, I just play the groove that way because it DOES sound better, that's all.


Sly

[megadan]

Originally Posted by nysbob

Playing solid, pumping eighth notes is a fundamental skill that you MUST master.

If speed isn't the issue, you can use one finger on the right hand...otherwise alternation is in order. I think it's helpful to articulate 1/8ths with the left hand as well as the right - lift a tiny bit between EACH NOTE to give a good pumping feel, rather than just holding the note down.

Make every note a jewel and significant.

If you don't play with drummer, by all means work with the metronome.

Bang on with the left hand tip IMHO. These are all good ways to play steady 8ths. I find the left hand muting is more useful when using alternating fingers; I find when I really want to lock into a groove I usually end up with the Jamerson style single finger technique.

Here's a tip for instant coolness: practice with your drummer who is also working on his steady 8ths on the kick. Drop the 3 of 1+2+3+4+ to leave room for his snare (he stops the kick here as well). Now start leaving different holes! Hours of fun.

[fourfinger]

I agree with everyone who said to give one finger a try. Not on most songs, but it works great on rock songs where you're playing 16 notes on each root before changing chords.

You can also alternate fingers every measure instead of every note to protect your hand.