Suggestions for the best way to learn note positions on the fretboard?

[bcolins]

Any suggestions for speeding up the process of learning what notes are where on the neck?

I have spent a fair amount of time looking at a printed representation of a 4 string fretboard and just studying the relationship of the notes to each other and to the first, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 10th and 12th frets. Im looking for any patterns or relationships to anything that will help me to internalize and quickly locate any note anywhere on the fretboard..... Its going very slowly so far......I am pretty good up to about the 5th fret.....and that the 7th fret is the octave point for the adjacent lower string, and of course,....know the octave point on the 12th fret.

Brian

[JTE]

A. Just pick a note at random, and find it all over the neck. Then pick another one and repeat.

B. Practice scales musically- Sing the name of each note BEFORE you play it. This does several useful things. It'll teach you the names of the notes all over the neck. It'll train your ear to hear the notes before you play them. It'll improve your ear.

C. Do the same thing with arpeggios (much more useful for fundamental bass playing than scales any way IMO)- name the notes as you play them.

D. Learn the intervals! If you can find C all over the neck, the G is the fifth, and F is the fourth so you can find them all over the neck.

Repeat ||: A through D:||

jte

[SSINTENSE]

JTE pretty much said it all.

Also, learn the basic three string and four fret range major scale and learn the keys. That way when you play that pattern over a certain root you will quickly know what notes you are playing if you know your keys.

[bcolins]

Do you recommend being "on key" when singing the note before playing it? (This would require my playing the note first to hear it in order to sing it)

Brian

[mambo4]

All I ever did deliberately was memorize the "dot" frets...3,5,7,9,12.
That plus remembering E-F and B-C are a semitone.

Once that was done, I was able to quickly figure out any fret. Overtime, the rest just sank in.

That said, learning your intervals is also helpful.

[SSINTENSE]

It's not so important if your singing pitch is right. Ofcourse you have to know what the note sounds like so it would help to train your ear if you first learn to sing it right and then apply what JTE was telling you.


The important thing is knowing what the note sounds like. Try to hum the note before you play it and if it is off, mute your bass, hum and try again until it is right. Keep trying this with every note.

[onlyclave]

Pacman's surefire scale practice method will do that for you. It's hard, but that's the point of practicing: to learn to play what you can't right now.

Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method

[bcolins]

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

JTE pretty much said it all.

Also, learn the basic three string and four fret range major scale and learn the keys. That way when you play that pattern over a certain root you will quickly know what notes you are playing if you know your keys.

SSintense: What is "basic three string and four fret range major scale and learn the keys"

I am just returning to bass playing after a 30+ year absence,...I always just played by ear.........more easily done 30+ years ago. Now for the first time,...learning some theory.

Brian

[SSINTENSE]

Here is an example of what I meant:

Say you are on root G (third fret of E).

Keep your middle finger on the G. Now you are going to use one finger per fret. So the index should be for fret 2, middle for 3, ring for 4, and pinky for 5.

Here is the fingering for a G major scale.

E string - 2, 4
A string - 1, 2, 4
D string - 1, 3 ,4

This is shiftable to any root which has a atleast two strings above it, so any root on the E or A string. There are many other major scale patterns to learn depending on where you are on the bass, but this is the most basic and the first one I learned. I chewed on this for a while when I started playing then once I got a real good understanding of the notes and how these scales are constructed I started to learn the other patterns. Since you said that you used to play by ear you are probably going to get the hang of it real fast.


I would chew on this pattern for a while and then study up on other major scale patterns. Then study how modes are constructed and the different modal patterns you could use.

But that's all for later. For now, just work on this pattern.

[SSINTENSE]

And as for the keys, well, that's just a matter of memorization.

The key of C is C D E F G A B C

The key of G is G A B C D E F# G

Using the G key above, when you play that pattern I just showed you, you are playing G A B C D E F# G in that exact order. Instead of knowing individually which frets are which, you will begin to see them in groups. It is much easier seeing them this way than it is to see each one individually.

[SSINTENSE]

One other thing - don't get in the habit of playing root-octave with that pattern above. This is why it is important to study the other patterns because it will show you how to scale the entire fretboard. The link the poster above actually has a great excercise for that.

[JTE]

I don't worry too much about singing in tune (my singing was once described as "a duet between Yoko Ono and Linda McCartney"- OUCH!!), but it's to focus yourself on the SOUND, not the physical aspects of playing. When I started doing this singing stuff (I got it from a great leasson Jerry Jemmott had published in Bass Player Magazine a long time ago), my playing started being more musical.

jte

[cire113]

just play alot thats what finally worked 4 me

[Bass Troll]

I wrote this a while ago for a friend, just before I fully managed to comprehend the CAGED system. The idea is that you can learn any scale very quickly and apply it anywhere. Although, it is by no means a replacement for learning the fretboard properly, It's more of a shortcut... That friend also happened to be a guitarist, and I've lost the original shapes I did for six string bass.
Anyway -

The basic theory is the first 6 degrees of the scale are played on two strings, and then the 7th degree is played along with the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degrees on the third string. So by playing 4 notes on the 3rd string, the pattern effectively resets, and you can repeat as much as desired. I should note here that when applied across all 6 strings, the pattern is actually 3, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3.

What’s the purpose of this? It allows us to learn only one pattern for each scale/mode, and we can move it to any key and have the root on any string. Another advantage is the added range, in comparison to a more traditional strict three notes per a string approach.

Of course, when going ascending onto the B string we need to move the pattern up one fret, and when descending from the B string we need to move it down 1 fret.

Here’s an example of the basic pattern for a C major scale:

e|---|---|----|---|----|
B|---|---|----|---|----|
G|---|---|----|---|----|
D|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|
A|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|
E|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|

On the E and A string are the first 6 degrees, follows by the 7th and octave on the D string. We can apply this pattern again by playing 4 notes on the D string.

e|---|---|----|---|----|----|----|
B|---|---|----|---|-12-|-13-|----|
G|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|-14-|
D|---|-9-|-10-|---|-12-|----|-14-| 4nps
A|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----| 3nps
E|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----| 3nps

Obviously we had to move the 7th and octave up a fret to accommodate the B string, but the basic shape is still the same as in the first example.
Here’s the pattern extended to it’s fullest in this position.

e|---|---|----|---|----|-13-|----|-15-|---|-17-|3nps
B|---|---|----|---|-12-|-13-|----|-15-|---|-17-|4nps
G|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|-14-|----|---|----|3nps
D|---|-9-|-10-|---|-12-|----|-14-|----|---|----|4nps
A|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----|----|---|----|3nps
E|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----|----|---|----|3nps

The next example shows the root, which is also the start of each pattern, with an R.

e|---|---|----|---|----|-13-|----|-15-|---|-17-|
B|---|---|----|---|-12-|--R-|----|-15-|---|-17-|
G|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|-14-|----|---|----|
D|---|-9-|--R-|---|-12-|----|-14-|----|---|----|
A|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----|----|---|----|
E|-R-|---|-10-|---|-12-|----|----|----|---|----|

Hopefully you can now see the repeated pattern, beginning on each R. Not that the basic pattern (the first example) can be applied on any string, with any root note, so long as you take into account the B string.


Here’s another example, this time with A minor. The basic shape is:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-5-|---|-7-|---|---|
A|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|
E|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|









Applied to its fullest extent it looks like this:

e|---|---|---|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|-13-|
B|---|---|---|-8-|---|-10-|---|-12-|-13-|
G|---|---|-7-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
D|-5-|---|-7-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
A|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|
E|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|

Now with the roots added:

e|---|---|---|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|-13-|
B|---|---|---|-8-|---|-R--|---|-12-|-13-|
G|---|---|-7-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
D|-5-|---|-R-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
A|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|
E|-R-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|

Hopefully you can see how the one basic pattern repeats with each R or root. If not, here is each pattern isolated from the above example:

e|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
B|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
G|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
D|-5-|---|-R-|---|---|----|---|----|----|
A|-5-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|
E|-R-|---|-7-|-8-|---|----|---|----|----|

e|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
B|---|---|---|-8-|---|-R--|---|----|----|
G|---|---|-7-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
D|---|---|-R-|---|-9-|-10-|---|----|----|
A|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
E|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|

Note how this is the same as the first pattern, except for the 7th and octave moved up 1 fret to accommodate the B string.

e|---|---|---|---|---|-10-|---|-12-|-13-|
B|---|---|---|---|---|-R--|---|-12-|-13-|
G|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
D|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
A|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
E|---|---|---|---|---|----|---|----|----|
Now that you (hopefully) understand the general theory, here are some of the more common shapes:
Note that this time I’m writing scale degrees instead of fret numbers, to show that the pattern can be applied anywhere.

Ionian (major):

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|---|-7-|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|---|-6-|
E|-R-|---|-2-|---|-3-|

Aeolian (minor):

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|-6-|---|
E|-R-|---|-2-|-3-|---|

Harmonic Minor:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|---|-7-|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|-6-|---|
E|-R-|---|-2-|-3-|---|

Phrygian:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|-6-|---|
E|-R-|-2-|---|-3-|---|




Major Phrygian:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|-6-|---|
E|-R-|-2-|---|---|-3-|

Double Major Phrygian:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|---|-7-|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|-6-|---|
E|-R-|-2-|---|---|-3-|

Dorian:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|---|-7-|
E|-R-|---|-2-|-3-|---|

Most of the other 7 note scales are easy enough to work out. Hopefully now you can see the usefulness of this technique – we can learn (and easily improvise) in any of these (sometimes strange) keys while only learning 1 shape for each.

This concept can also be applied to scales this less then 7 notes.

Major Pentatonic:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-6-|---|---|-R-|---|
A|-3-|---|---|-5-|---|
E|---|-R-|---|-2-|---|


Minor Pentatonic:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|
E|-R-|---|---|-3-|---|

Minor Blues:

e|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|-7-|---|-R-|---|---|
A|-4-|d5-|-5-|---|---|
E|-R-|---|---|-3-|---|

Whole Tone:

e|---|---|---|---|---|---|
B|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D|---|---|-R-|---|---|---|
A|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|-6-|
E|-1-|---|-2-|---|-3-|---|

Although this technique is useful when learning unfamiliar keys quickly and being able to improvise easily, it is by no means a replacement for learning your fret board thoroughly. Eventually you should aim to use it conjunction with other shapes and ideas.

Well it's probably a little ignorant, (I wrote it a fair while ago), it could be the quicker was you're looking for.

[JonnyAngle]

Originally Posted by SSINTENSE

Here is an example of what I meant:

Say you are on root G (third fret of E).


Here is the fingering for a G major scale.

E string - 2, 4
A string - 1, 2, 4
D string - 1, 3 ,4

I'm asking, noob here. In a later post you say the notes are g,a,b,c,d,e,f#,g

In this scale I see f#, G#, Bb, b, C#, Eb, F#.

The caps are the differences in scales. Are you sure that tab is for the Gmaj scale??? It looks like the F# maj scale to me?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by JonnyAngle

I'm asking, noob here. In a later post you say the notes are g,a,b,c,d,e,f#,g

In this scale I see f#, G#, Bb, b, C#, Eb, F#.

The caps are the differences in scales. Are you sure that tab is for the Gmaj scale??? It looks like the F# maj scale to me?

Fingering is not equal to tab.

Giving someone a pattern of fingerings to memorize isn't helping them.

Try this fingering:

E string: 1-1
A string: 1-1-1
D-string: 1-1-1

Where are your notes now?

[Sinclair]

The numbers in the scale represent your fingers.
The middle finger (2) rests on fret 3 (G) in that example.


Finger
-------1---2---3---4
G|---|---|---|---|---|
D|---|-e-|---|-f#|-g-|
A|---|-b-|-c-|---|-d-|
E|---|---|-g-|---|-a-|

[E2daGGurl]

I think it helps to keep employing various methods. Obviously, right at the beginning, you learn that the fifth fret on each of the three lower strings is the same note as the open string above it.

Then, learning the basic first position chromatic (half step/one fret) scale in E comes naturally and teaches all the accidentals. When you reach the top string, keep going until you get to the E there, and then go back down in first position. That way you have the ability to play any chart you encounter, right away, even if not in the right octave and it builds confidence.

I memorized the notes and visualized the note on the bass clef as I did this.

Then, I learned Ionian and Dorian modes on each string, which finally led naturally to second position and third position knowledge.

I use arithmetic a lot, e.g., pluck a note, go up a string and up 7 frets and it's the same note. Up two strings and 2 frets is the same note. I did this first with finding all the E's, but of course if you learn those two little sums, you can find anything pretty quickly. So it became easy to remember that E on the G string is the 9th fret (using the up one string and 7 fret rule from the E on the D string).

Interestingly, I began to notice (*dur*) that Fender had conveniently placed markers on many of the frets I wanted to learn in E. How about that?

The one thing I found of absolutely no help was staring at a chart of the fretboard. I think everyone learns differently, but for me, having multiple methods for figuring things out is best. After doing these things for a few months, all at once i was remembering nearly the whole fretboard (still weak above the 15th fret, because I hardly ever go there).

I am now ready to tackle integrating the various modes and scales Bass Troll so nicely posted for us. I them in theory, and some of them in practice, I definitely want to know all my modes and scales in the keys of E, G, C, A and D as soon as possible (getting there on E).

[Lesfunk]

Learn to read notes in position. for example, Key of C, first position and second position.
same two positions for Key of G . and so on... A 4th pos and 1st pos, , B flat 5th and 1st pos.. etc.
Not only are you practicing reading, your learning your finger board and Key Signature positions without having to look at your neck. You're also constantly reinforcing muscle memory of here the notes are in relation to each other under your fingers.

[groove pump]

One great method I know of for getting used to knowing "which notes are where" on your neck is to go up and down one string and say the notes to yourself as you play them. Start for example on your open A string and play every note - no sharps and flats yet - and say them or even sing them as you go all the way up to the highest fret, then go back down. I caught this technique from both a teacher and another player and it's worked wonders for me.

You can do more interesting things as you get more comfortable with recognizing notes like playing one string scales or going the length of the string with a two forward/one back sequence:

<<same A string>>
A - C - B - D - C - E , etc. the length of the string both ascending and descending.

What you may find after you do a little bit of this is that your eye will establish reference points on the neck so that even if you don't know every note at a glance, you'll know the one right next to it. Even with these reference points in your head, you'll be a lot more familiar with the notes in more positions.