sus2 = add9?

[iceshaft07]

Hey, are sus2 chords the same as add9?

[Low-end_Wes]

No sir, add9 is adding a high second to the chord. A suspension is replacing the 3rd with a 2nd. therein, a Csus2 is C-D-G (rather than C-E-G). Most suspensions are in perfect fourths.

[mutedeity]

No, a suspended 2nd is where the 2nd is moving upwards to the third. This is a non-tertian function. The context of the chord is important in this case.

A 9th chord is where the 9th is tertian. There is a difference between an add9 chord and a 9th chord too. A 9th chord is a dominant 7th with a M9 whereas an add9 chord is a major triad with the 9th added.

You can also have an add2 chord which is not technically a suspension, but isn't tertian either because of the voicing.

This post would probably be more relevant in the general instruction forum. There is also a thread similar to this there where HaVic5 gives a good explanation about the add2 chord.

In summary a 9th and a 2nd are not the same thing.

[BassChuck]

Well, just to stir the pot a little. When I studied classical music theory there were 3 types of suspentions. The 3-4 (most common), the 5-6 (rather wimpy to modern ears) and 9-8. The 9-8 can happen over major chords, but it is especially effective over minor chords.

The song "Yesterday" opens with a (yikes!) unprepared 9-8 suspention in the vocal part.

However, IMHO there is a slight difference between "sus 2" and "add 9". I would take the sus2 chord to be without a 3rd... in other words the 2 subs for the 3. In the add9 I would take that to mean a ninth added to the chord, without a 7th. (Generally speaking a in a C9 chord, one would assume there would also be a 7th)

[HaVIC5]

Well, just to stir the pot a little. When I studied classical music theory there were 3 types of suspentions. The 3-4 (most common), the 5-6 (rather wimpy to modern ears) and 9-8. The 9-8 can happen over major chords, but it is especially effective over minor chords.

The main kinds of suspensions are the 4-3, 7-6, and 9-8 in the treble, and the 2-3 and (kind of) the 5-6 in the bass. They're always descending patterns, and they always resolve to a consonance, which is why you can't really have a 3-4 suspension, since it's going up and goes to a dissonance (yes, fourths are dissonant). This is why the "sus2" chord is kind of a misnomer, because it's an ascending dissonance resolution pattern instead of descending. You might call this a "retardation" instead of a suspension in classical speak, but as I explained in the other thread, it's really neither - it's an appogiatura that has it's roots in country music.

[Mushroo]

Sus2 chords such as you'd see in a modern chart have little if anything to do with classical voice leading. They consist of the root, 2nd, and 5th, and the 2nd doesn't necessarily need to resolve up or down to anything. Sometimes you just don't want a 3rd in the chord.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

Sometimes you just don't want a 3rd in the chord.

Thirds screw up my power chords.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

However, IMHO there is a slight difference between "sus 2" and "add 9". I would take the sus2 chord to be without a 3rd... in other words the 2 subs for the 3. In the add9 I would take that to mean a ninth added to the chord, without a 7th. (Generally speaking a in a C9 chord, one would assume there would also be a 7th)

As stated, sus2 can't have a 3rd, add9 can.

Add9 means a 9 added to a triad.
C9 is a C7 with a 9
Cmaj9 is a Cmaj7 with a 9

Csus2
C D G

Cadd9
C E G D

C9
C E G Bb D

Cmaj9
C E G B D

[HaVIC5]

And C add 2 =

C D E G

Which, like stated in the other thread, is different than add9, because on how the chord is voiced.

[Deacon_Blues]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The main kinds of suspensions are the 4-3, 7-6, and 9-8 in the treble, and the 2-3 and (kind of) the 5-6 in the bass. They're always descending patterns, and they always resolve to a consonance, which is why you can't really have a 3-4 suspension, since it's going up and goes to a dissonance (yes, fourths are dissonant). This is why the "sus2" chord is kind of a misnomer, because it's an ascending dissonance resolution pattern instead of descending. You might call this a "retardation" instead of a suspension in classical speak, but as I explained in the other thread, it's really neither - it's an appogiatura that has it's roots in country music.

Could you, Basschuck or someone else explain these suspensions with chord examples? I'm not certain what you mean with the 7-6 suspension. The 6 don't sound "home" to me in the same way as the notes from a major or minor triad.

If I understood the others right, am I right in saying you can combine the 4-3 suspension with the 6-5 and get a nice IV/I - I (e.g. F/C - C) progression?

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Thirds screw up my power chords.

lol!

that's because a power chord is an ambiguous chord, it is neither a major, minor, dim, or sus...
adding a 3rd removes the ambiguity...hence, it "screws up" your power chord...

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by PilbaraBass

lol!

that's because a power chord is an ambiguous chord, it is neither a major, minor, dim, or sus...
adding a 3rd removes the ambiguity...hence, it "screws up" your power chord...

Thank you. I was unclear on that.

Now I'll go back to tabbing out "Rock and Roll Train".

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

Could you, Basschuck or someone else explain these suspensions with chord examples? I'm not certain what you mean with the 7-6 suspension. The 6 don't sound "home" to me in the same way as the notes from a major or minor triad.

If I understood the others right, am I right in saying you can combine the 4-3 suspension with the 6-5 and get a nice IV/I - I (e.g. F/C - C) progression?

You should really pick up a book on counterpoint, because suspensions in their pure sense don't have anything to do with chords, just intervals, and that's why a 7-6 might not appear to work if you're trying to force it to work with chords in a way its not supposed to. There's a lot more to counterpoint than I could ever hope to write here and get to suspensions, so here's a wikipedia article to prime you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

Could you, Basschuck or someone else explain these suspensions with chord examples? I'm not certain what you mean with the 7-6 suspension. The 6 don't sound "home" to me in the same way as the notes from a major or minor triad.

If I understood the others right, am I right in saying you can combine the 4-3 suspension with the 6-5 and get a nice IV/I - I (e.g. F/C - C) progression?

Like HaVIC5 said.. there's a lot more to it that just the chord and the symbols. Suspensions came more from melodic movement than from harmonic thinking. Imagine four vocal lines each singing a note in a F major chord. (from bass to soprano, F C F A) They move to a C major chord, except the alto so you have C C F G. Until the alto voice moves to E the F is suspended above the C (as pointed out a 4th is dissonant... always has been). When the alto moves to E, the chord is 'resolved'... that is, the tension is released and the chord is now a full C major chord C C E G.

Thats a very simple example of how all this came about from a time that music was very largely a vocal thing. And yea, if you have more than one suspention going on more then likely you'll hear this as a slash chord.

It's all just sounds. The theory part is not 'permission' to use something. Theory is just a recap and explaination of what has happened. But do check out books and anything that explains how music is constructed. The more you understand the more you'll imagine... and that's what it's all about.

[Mushroo]

Suspensions (in the sense we're discussing them) go back to to the vocal music of the church. They did not use "chord progressions" (as we know them) back then; rather, harmonic tension and release was created from the intervals between the individual voices. That suspended IV to I sound Deacon Blues asked about is sometimes called the "Amen cadence" and it does indeed have its roots in this old church music.

[Deacon_Blues]

Thanks for your replies guys. I'll check out more on counterpoint sometimes, seems like there's a lot to learn there...

[christoph h.]

to me, sus2 is just an inversion of sus4.

CDG = Csus2 = GCD = Gsus4 = DGC = D7sus4

why this may not be the "most theoretically correct" POV, it is the most practical for me, because I usually see them used as upper structures.

[AlphaMale]

Here it is as simple as possible:

Functionally a 2 and a 9 are different.

As far as the notes

Sus2 chords don't have the third that an add9 chord would.

Basically

Add 9 = Root, Major Third, Perfect Fifth, 9th
Sus2 = Root, Major Second, Perfect fifth

An Add 9 chord has an extra note the other doesn't.

[iceshaft07]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

No, a suspended 2nd is where the 2nd is moving upwards to the third. This is a non-tertian function. The context of the chord is important in this case.

A 9th chord is where the 9th is tertian. There is a difference between an add9 chord and a 9th chord too. A 9th chord is a dominant 7th with a M9 whereas an add9 chord is a major triad with the 9th added.

You can also have an add2 chord which is not technically a suspension, but isn't tertian either because of the voicing.

This post would probably be more relevant in the general instruction forum. There is also a thread similar to this there where HaVic5 gives a good explanation about the add2 chord.

In summary a 9th and a 2nd are not the same thing.

Thanks, and you are right, this did belong in general instruction.

Thanks to all who wrote! I understand now :-D!

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

And C add 2 =

C D E G

Which, like stated in the other thread, is different than add9, because on how the chord is voiced.

Does the 2 have to be voiced in between in the 1 and 3?