Swolen/stiff finger from (slap and)pops.

[nbw]

Hey. I'm having an issue.. a recurring issue that is with my middle finger on my plucking hand. It seems to come about when I'm doing double pops on various songs.
At the moment my middle finger is again, swolen and kinda stiff, and I can't curl it inward enough so that my finger can touch my upper palm.
When this comes up I usually just take a break from playing all together to avoid further hurting it. I assumed I was just over using the muscle but this issue is still not going away.
Does this problem sound familiar to anyone? I can only guess I'm doing something severely incorrect technique wise..
Any advice?

[onlyclave]

Hmm, sounds like a symptom of bassturbation. Try laying off of the double-popping and see what happens.

[BassSlave]

Try using the index finger while it heals and maybe incorporate using them both for different purposes. I switch them up sometimes or just use one or the other depending on the situation. I used to be a middle finger popper and use to get the same swollen finger from over doing it. Also try to only use enough force to get the sound you need. There is no need to pull really hard. Also practice control over using all techniques. If you practice popping with a lighter touch you will find that you can still achieve the same pluck sound with less force and this will make single and double pops much easier not to mention increased speed. You should always be relaxed anyway so practice relaxing the entire hand while plucking. Also for double plucking, I pull the two fingers in closer to the palm where the fat meaty part below the thumb is. This also makes it easier to get in between the middle strings when trying double plucking. So it should not look the same when doing single popping, which looks like a hook. It should like like one single movement even though you are doing two so practice separately each finger pop with a light touch and then when you practice the doubles you will get a more natural movement much like a classical guitarist.

[markkoelsch]

First, when you are laying off, how long are you going without playing? Secondly, how much time are you playing per day? Third, how many years have you been playing?

I have had some hand issues, as well as a serious bout of tendonitis about 18 years ago. I tried to play through the tendonitis, but in truth it just made it worse. To get over it, I ended up not playing at all for 6 months, and then I started playing very slowly. By this, I mean about 15 minutes every other day. After about a month I went to 15-20 minutes everyday, and then to about half hour about 4 days a week.

Injuries can stop you cold, and do not underestimate them. I have a friend who was a very talented and dedicated classical guitarist. He used to practice like crazy. He had done master classes with Christopher Parkening, Julian Breem, and a few other well known guys. He was the real deal. He played himself right out a career by not listening to the pain he was getting in his left hand. He got tendonitis so badly that he essentially can no longer play...yep, pretty much permanent damage. Yes, he can pick up a guitar and play a bit now, but if he plays for more than 20 minutes or so his hand begins to hurt and swell. The initial injury (really incurred over a long period of too much playing) was 15 years ago, and he is done.

I seriously recommend that if this does not go away with a week or two of not playing that you see a Doctor...preferably a hand specialist.

Mark Koelsch- Bassist, and hand injury survivor.

[nbw]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Hmm, sounds like a symptom of bassturbation. Try laying off of the double-popping and see what happens.

Yeah that is basically what I've been trying to do. I'd wait a few days or until I see the selling/stiffness completely gone, pick her up and play and see if I can feel it come back, if so I'd immediately put her back and take another day or so to make sure.

Originally Posted by BassSlave

Try using the index finger while it heals and maybe incorporate using them both for different purposes. I switch them up sometimes or just use one or the other depending on the situation. I used to be a middle finger popper and use to get the same swollen finger from over doing it. Also try to only use enough force to get the sound you need. There is no need to pull really hard. Also practice control over using all techniques. If you practice popping with a lighter touch you will find that you can still achieve the same pluck sound with less force and this will make single and double pops much easier not to mention increased speed. You should always be relaxed anyway so practice relaxing the entire hand while plucking. Also for double plucking, I pull the two fingers in closer to the palm where the fat meaty part below the thumb is. This also makes it easier to get in between the middle strings when trying double plucking. So it should not look the same when doing single popping, which looks like a hook. It should like like one single movement even though you are doing two so practice separately each finger pop with a light touch and then when you practice the doubles you will get a more natural movement much like a classical guitarist.

I have suspected I may be over doing it but I never thought about it while playing. I'm kinda glad to hear I'm not the only one who has gone through this since that meens it should be a simple matter of learning from my mistake and correcting my technique. I'll try that hand posture you mentioned, thanks!

Originally Posted by markkoelsch

First, when you are laying off, how long are you going without playing? Secondly, how much time are you playing per day? Third, how many years have you been playing?

I have had some hand issues, as well as a serious bout of tendonitis about 18 years ago. I tried to play through the tendonitis, but in truth it just made it worse. To get over it, I ended up not playing at all for 6 months, and then I started playing very slowly. By this, I mean about 15 minutes every other day. After about a month I went to 15-20 minutes everyday, and then to about half hour about 4 days a week.

Injuries can stop you cold, and do not underestimate them. I have a friend who was a very talented and dedicated classical guitarist. He used to practice like crazy. He had done master classes with Christopher Parkening, Julian Breem, and a few other well known guys. He was the real deal. He played himself right out a career by not listening to the pain he was getting in his left hand. He got tendonitis so badly that he essentially can no longer play...yep, pretty much permanent damage. Yes, he can pick up a guitar and play a bit now, but if he plays for more than 20 minutes or so his hand begins to hurt and swell. The initial injury (really incurred over a long period of too much playing) was 15 years ago, and he is done.

I seriously recommend that if this does not go away with a week or two of not playing that you see a Doctor...preferably a hand specialist.

Mark Koelsch- Bassist, and hand injury survivor.

As mentioned, a few days, maybe three on average. I practice, or should I say try to get in on average a few hours a day, maybe around three. More if I'm feeling inspired and have the time.. which could very well be when I'm hurting myself since I never keep track how long I've been playing. This is especially true when I'm jamming alone with a aggressive music such as mudvayne LD50's ect. On average I practice around 4days a week.
I've been playing for I believe about five or so years now, for the most part off and on until about a year ago when I started feeling more dedicated to my playing.

As I'm reading your comments and then admitting my habits I feel as if I'm having abit of an epiphany of what should have been common sense. To go out on a limb I can see that I am most likely not only plucking too hard while 'rocking out' and when I am playing I tend to go with the flow rather then fallow some kind of schedule of play XXX minutes and rest XXX minutes. Again, these are only my guesses since I honestly don't really pay that much attention to that aspect of practicing.

With that said, it has been a few days since I had played and this morning when I woke up it was sour and stiff again. I can only imagine I'm still stress the injury at work as well...


Thanks for the help!

[EyeH8†]

I would say try a lighter pop or lower action. You shouldn't have to manhandle the string.

[BassSlave]

Also make sure you warm up before playing or practicing. I use a simple warm up and have a few different ones to prevent monotony. I also have been trying a quick massage to the fingers, hands, and forearms and that really gets things ready for playing. I'm the type who likes to play and practice every single day. If I'm not gigging then I am practicing during the time of day I should be gigging (late at night) as well as each morning. When I was younger I would go at it very aggressively and that is not good. Learning more control over the instrument helped in the long run. Last winter I experienced major arthritis and i was already playing lighter, but turned it down another notch on the aggressive scale and used more of the amp and the instruments volume for dynamics and find that I have a greater dynamic range between playing softly and loudly. I can still get wild every once in a while too, but now its just another dynamic expression so I can back off when I want to. Good drummers exhibit the same behavior in that they don't overpower their instrument. Finesse is always the key.

[BassSlave]

Also what gauge strings are you using? Many players go lighter while lowering the action to make things feel easier on the hands. I prefer regular 45-105 gauges and medium to low, but never low-as-it-can-go action. I like to feel the string moving and get some air underneath so if this is you, you will have to work on your hand strength, control, and how to play efficiently. There are those that are blessed with big hands and can man-handle the bass and I envy those bigger players because they can get a huge tone as well and not worry about lower action or lighter strings. So you can also try using lighter gauge strings.

[Ric5]

I have a cure ... Play with a pick.

[nbw]

I'm not sure what size strings on on her currently, I've only had this bass for a month or so and am just now in a process of ordering new strings. But being a warwick 6 with 34" scale I imagine the string gauge is rather big, .135/0.033 give or take.

So when taking a break from playing to let this pass how long should I go? Is a few days good enough or am I not waiting long enough? I've heard some comments about waiting around three weeks.( )

[stflbn]

You could wait longer periods to heal if you haven't tried that. You could also do 1/2 hour of practicing at a time with an hour or more in between sessions and see if that still flairs up the problem.

[LarryO]

http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/hw022.htm

[BassSlave]

It looks like you are using heavier gauges so you can bump that down a notch...or two. Also how long have you been a bass player? If you are just starting out, I would not suggest using the heavier gauges unless you are playing drop tunings (metal, gospel) or using a pick (like someone here suggested), or have huge hands and don't mind the extra tension. I play an MTD 35" scale and never go over .046 on the G, .030 on the C, but prefer .044-.125 on the six string and .045-130 on my Sadowsky UV5.

AS far a taking a break, The swelling should go down in a day so if not use ice to bring the swelling down and if it persists longer than that, please see a doctor. Three weeks is too long to wait in between playing, I have sprained different fingers on my hand and it never took longer than a week to heal. A swollen finger from playing too much should heal in a day if you lay off the bass and try ice or cold water. Another good warm-up that comes to mind is before you play, running warm or hot water on the hands gets your circulation going and relaxes your hands. Many pros use this to facilitate warming up before playing, especially on gigs. Just remember NOT to use hot or warm water on a swollen finger or sprain, you want to cool those symptoms down first.

Originally Posted by nbw

I'm not sure what size strings on on her currently, I've only had this bass for a month or so and am just now in a process of ordering new strings. But being a warwick 6 with 34" scale I imagine the string gauge is rather big, .135/0.033 give or take.

So when taking a break from playing to let this pass how long should I go? Is a few days good enough or am I not waiting long enough? I've heard some comments about waiting around three weeks.( )

[Fergie Fulton]

Sorry to hear of your problems from playing bass. I have spent the last 17 years or so studing techniques and the pressures the modern electric bass guitar puts on the body. I have posted some short blogs to give players an understanding of what the human body is capable of and how it can best cope with the pressures of playing bass guitar, which can be brutal. Go to www.myspace.com/vintageprecisionbass and read the blogs on the Physicalities of playing bass. These blogs are a general view of playing, and just a small piece of the information gathered,so please let me have your feedback and any questions it might raise for you and hopfully get you back to pain free playing.

[BassSlave]

+1 Thanks Larry! I have a trigger index on my left (fretting) hand from years of playing. Not as bad as in those pictures and in reverse, it is hard to bend first thing in the morning. This is a common finger to get trigger finger since we tend to lead-off or use the index finger the most. I wake up each morning with a stiff index finger (no jokes plz) that feels like it doesn't want to bend, but I fix that everyday by simply massaging the entire foreams and hands. Then I start each morning with a simple and slow warmup on the bass. The symptoms go away in about five seconds or as soon as I depress the first note with my index finger. I used to get the fingers and hands lock-up that wouldn't want to open in the morning, but I discovered that if you sleep with your hands flat and not balled up you will wake up with open hands and not the clinched fist. Especially after a gig, you want to relax those hands and open the tendons. Take it from someone who have bounced back from a few hand injuries, even paralysis in my right hand and I'm right-handed. I've fully recovered and actually gained strength and learned to use the hands most efficiently when playing bass. I like the comment someone made about using picks too. I use all types of picks, and thumb and finger techniques and if you spread them out and mix them up and swith back and forth (even during one tune), you can spread the work for the day across the entire hand and not run the risk of abusing any one finger.

Originally Posted by LarryO

http://www.eatonhand.com/hw/hw022.htm

[millsbass5]

I have a condition called psoriatic arthritis.Which is basically a skin disorder caused by arthritis.It covers approximately 50% of my body,along with massive swelling in my joints.Ive been playing since i was 12 years old,Im 43 now.there has been times in the past that Ive had to stop playing for months at a time.Due to the severity of my condition ive had to take the pharmaceutical route for my condition.ive tried ALL the pain pills(codeine.hydrocodone,even morphine and oxycontin!)prescribed by a doc,by the way.i was diagnosed with this condition when i was 20 years old.I was VERY,VERY worried about my appearance.It kept me from playing out in public for a couple of years.believe you me ,drunks in a bar can be very cruel and ignorant.Come to think of it sober people can be that way too!What im saying is ,WARM UP,WARM UP PROPERLY!!My method is as follows=(1)Keep anti-inflammitories(motrin,ibuprofin 1600mg. in your system)-(2)Running my hands under hot water for a few minutes does wonders for me.Remember a couple minutes out of your day will bring you a lifetime of playing enjoyment instead of arthritis or RSS(Repetative stress syndrome)more painful than arthritis in some cases.take care and keep the groove goin. Steve Mills

[Fergie Fulton]

Hi there BassSlave tell me more about some of your problems and how you got by them, i'm in a similar situation and collecting information on injuries and how to overcome them.

[LarryO]

As far as sleeping with your fingers straight out instead of curled up, just like for your wrists to lessen the stiffness from carpal tunnel syndrome, there are many "night splints" than can be bought off the shelf or made with padded fiberglass. Hely & weber make some good stuff

[BassSlave]

Millsbass5 gave some of the best advice on the importance of warm up and hot water. I was also given anit-inflammatory meds last year for the arthritic condition, but only use them for severe pain. Most of the time I can get the pain (if any) to go away before a gig. So far this year I have had no flare ups with arthritis or swelling. As for my earlier paralysis in my right hand, that was caused by lacerating the major tendons in my right forearm causing the thumb, ring and pinky to die for two years. The middle two had 20-40% mobility and I did try to practice with my brace on during those long frustrating years, but would always cramp up. I learned the hard way on how the tendons that control the fingers and hand work and where they are located (in the forearm, triceps for the most part) I developed a one handed technique (tap) that made my left hand develop further than my right so I had to focus a lot of energy during the healing process to my right (plucking) hand. I had to relearn to coordinate the sloppy right with the very advanced left. That was 20 years ago and now I show no symptoms of cramping up or weakness and the arthritic pain is just a minor inheritance I got from mom. She moved to California to deal with hers while I still stay in the windy city (Chitown). Going back to the injury, I took rehab very serious and played with silly putty and rubber balls to gain hand strength. And the word S-L-O-W-L-Y is the key. I was a beast (if I must say so myself) on bass before then and now play more like a tamed beast, but can go there with ease and economy of motion and much more control. Also note that before that accident I have another laceration of the thumb tendon about 5 years prior and had a surgical (metal) rod implanted going the length of the thumb until the tendon healed. When that was taken out my thumb was stiff for a few years afterward. Mind you, I was a major thumb player with emphasis on double and what I called "back stroking" with the thumb. So I went from having a natural backwards bend and losing that to learning how to play with a stiff thumb, then losing that and learning how to wipe my butt let alone play bass, then to where I am now which is back to the backwards curve in the thumb and total mobility in all fingers and it feels normal like when I was a teen, but with much more power and control. I sometimes play with one hand still at clubs while drinking a beer or checking my cell phone messages and even texted someone on a gig while simultaneously playing just for show. The best way to overcome your injuries is to take them head on, one day at a time, slowly and very persistently and try to not rely on the medications for pain. I also seek advice from a guitar master/heath Guru that also adds Yoga and healthy eating to the workout plan. He plays guitar effortlessly, (a little too much for my taste), but has helped me get to a painless (for the most part) lifestyle. I still love aggressive playing so I seek ways to get the big sound with the least effort and Bruce Lee's books also have a few secrets on that concept. I don't study Karate, but I love applying martial artist's concepts to the bass. Sorry for the long post.

Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton

Hi there BassSlave tell me more about some of your problems and how you got by them, i'm in a similar situation and collecting information on injuries and how to overcome them.

[BassSlave]

Also add to try to keep your hands lower than your heart, this will increase blood flow to the hands while you sleep. I use to sleep with hands over my head or under the pillow or on my wife (Smile), but now I keep them positioned near my stomach so the blood can get to the hands. There is a noticeable difference and improvement each morning.

Originally Posted by LarryO

As far as sleeping with your fingers straight out instead of curled up, just like for your wrists to lessen the stiffness from carpal tunnel syndrome, there are many "night splints" than can be bought off the shelf or made with padded fiberglass. Hely & weber make some good stuff