Teach me to play metal bass...

[helly]

Alright, so normally I tend to lurk and post random unnoticed replies longer before starting a thread, but here goes. I'm a recent convert to full-time bass, not because I "couldn't hack it" on guitar, or anything of the sort, but my band needed a bassist and I was feeling froggy, so I jumped. It's an absolute blast, and I don't regret it a bit, but I figure I should have a better grasp of my new role in the mix, as I'm well aware it's not quite the same as on guitar.

We play on the technical side of death metal/deathcore. Think Whitechapel with some elements of The Black Dahlia Murder and similar bands. Fast, lots of movement on the fretboard, technical patterns in the breakdowns, pedaling riffs, tremolo picking, sweeps, etcetera.

Right now I'm making due pretty well matching the guitar riffs on the bass, but certain things don't have the impact that they do on the guitar, and I feel like I could do better to accentuate them with different parts. Long stretch hammer-on patterns for instance, the bass just doesn't get the same note definition on them, especially when I'm trying to do a triplet or more on the open C in between each one. Palm muting doesn't exactly help with note definition in the same way, I've come to find.

Now, it has helped TONS (somebody even told me I was their second favorite metal bassist ever the other day) to buy a bass and get rid of the borrowed piece of crap I was using, and a new rig is coming up in short order, but of course there's always more to learn, so I'm curious to see what you folks have as far as advice goes.

I'm playing with a pick, and I'm pretty sure I need to be (though I have been practicing with my fingers, just because same as when I was playing guitar, I don't want to be that bassist/guitarist who can only play extreme metal), and coming from metal guitar, my picking technique is pretty good. Alternate, economy, sweeping, whichever way it's needed, I can do it, though I'm pretty awful with my fingers for the time being. I suppose this gives me a leg up, which I'm grateful for, and I'm adjusting pretty well to the longer scale, it's pretty comfortable so far; same with the larger string size (I play 13-62 on my guitar ), and uh, well, that's it, I suppose. Anybody have any tips, lessons to read, bassists to pay close attention to, tabs to look at, etc?

Thankya.

[baztard]

If you're band does stuff in odd time signatures, have a look at Justin Chancellor from Tool
He's also a good example of a bassist who plays different to what the guitarist is doing, but still does it effectively, and it helps the song.

songs to listen to (if you want) from tool


jambi
the grudge
schism

may not be your kind of music but have a listen anyways

[atheos]

Since you can play guitar I'm sure you'll figure bass out very well. But then again, my favorite metal bassists ever are Justin Chancellor (Tool) and Cliff Burton (Metallica) so listen to what they play. Both know when to hold back and go with rhythm guitar but can also fill blank spots with nice licks and fills.

You may notice that you can't use low notes for fast licks (yes, they lack definition) but try going up the fretboard and/or play the higher strings.

Palm muting is quite different thing on a bass and it needs a bit different approach to work like intended since the bass strings need more damping to mute them so you have to place your palm farther from the bridge than on a guitar. Do remember that palm muting is not necessary at all, depending on song. Many times you can just play open notes and leave muting for guitars.

The best way to play metal on a bass (IMO!) is to support the guitar(s) and then find the blank spots where you can play some fills. Always respect the song and don't overplay anything - it's the art of bass playing, being humble and arrogant at the same time.

[Vorago]

Practice this



Repeat

[helly]

Haha, thank you Vorago. No offense to you other guys, I'm a huge Chancellor and Burton fan, but neither of them quite capture what I'm working at here (apart from the fact that we do have quite a bit of off-time stuff, but it's not nearly Tool or Meshuggah level).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvNGA...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOuM...ature=related#

These guys are pretty close to the sort of stuff we're about. A lot more chunk and groove to it than Cannibal Corpse, but a similar range of overall technicality. I guess if there's any way I could specify any further, I'd probably say I need help writing appropriate bass lines, instead of just matching the guitars. I've already made a bit of progress on that, tuning the fifth string of my Corvette down to G (matches nicely on 'dirty' breakdowns with the low C the guitarists have as their sixth string, and is great for a massive bass drop after a drum fill), so that gives me some stuff that HAS to be different simply because it's in a range that doesn't exist on the guitar. I've also, just out of habit, started playing low harmonies, such as I would have written for a second guitar part, but I'm rocking them an octave lower on bass, for a bunch of the riffs.

I just really don't want to be that metal band bassist that nobody really needs around. If I'm going to be here, I'm determined to make as much of a contribution as everybody else, and right now, I just don't know enough about how I fit into the writing process to do so.

[pseudoxh4]

The stickied thread "Demystifying Metal styles, how to make fingerstyle playing heard in Metal" no doubt contains useful advice if you haven't already looked at that.

I'm not really familiar with the bands you've mentioned, but to get a good idea of what can be done to make the bass stand out in (death) metal, Death's Individual Thought Patterns is a prime example (just about every song on the album has the bass doing something that doesn't go unnoticed).

Another band that springs to mind (and that most usually mention) would be Atheist; Unquestionable Presence and Elements have the bass way up in the mix with a few flashy techniques like slap and tap thrown in.

You might also want to have a listen to Martyr-- in particular the albums Warp Zone and Feeding the Abscess spring to mind. As far as techniques go, the bassist employs fingerstyle, but the way his playing fits into the mix (i.e. locking in with the drummer / fills at the right time) is worth listening to.

Finally, it goes without mentioning that you should have a listen to Spiral Architect; the bass totally overpowers the guitar (in my honest opinion). Some other bands to have a listen to: Quo Vadis (in particular, their album Defiant Imagination; the bass does things quite similar to the guitar but stands out at times), Cynic (great bass on here-- usually rhythm, but there is a solo on Textures) and Spastic Ink (not death metal, but great bass nonetheless).

As far as tabs go, I haven't really come across many that are accurate when it comes to this sort of music, but Martyr have bass tab books out in case you are interested (and I hear Quo Vadis is releasing one).

In case you're interested in picking up better fingerstyle technique, it may be worth looking at Steve DiGiorgio's bass column on three-finger technique which can be found here.

Steve Bailey's also got a lesson on his page for his three-finger picking technique which would be worth looking at as well.

In fact, a lot of (death) metal's great bassists have their influences rooted in jazz and funk, so it would be worth venturing into techniques in these other styles to add some flavour to your playing. Don't be genre specific.

Good luck!

[BullHorn]

Originally Posted by pseudoxh4

to get a good idea of what can be done to make the bass stand out in (death) metal, Death's Individual Thought Patterns is a prime example (just about every song on the album has the bass doing something that doesn't go unnoticed).

Another band that springs to mind (and that most usually mention) would be Atheist; Unquestionable Presence and Elements have the bass way up in the mix with a few flashy techniques like slap and tap thrown in.

+132987562378523 on this one. Individual Thought Patterns and Elements are some of my all-time favourite albums, ever.

[Alcyon]

I'm a huuuge Death fan and have immense respect for them but I don't think that's what this guy is going for. For your kind of music (and mine :P) check out The Red Chord... Greg Weeks is a very strong bassist, sponsored by Traben, his playing is awesome. More in that vein... I wouldn't say follow the guitars all the time, especially during shared "solos" or harmony parts. Try picking three notes and just chugging on them to give atmosphere behind those parts. Just some thoughts.

[madmaskbass]

hey bro congrats on taking the leap to the dark side, welcome. I know the sought of style that you are going for i think... i play nearly death metal but more groove based but still blasting and stuff similar. devildriver type music. The answer i really think that you are looking for is whether or not is it alright for you to just playing the guitar riffs? most of the time thats the only choice that you have sometimes maybe playing under but still following the guitar with riffs that complex and fast backing it up on bass just sounds the best but..

some other variants that you can throw in which is my favourite type is to boost the bass drum say on a slower part or something where your drummer is playing an interesting doubkle kick pattern, just find the bass note or chord pattern that compliments the guitar and just groove out on the same rythum pattern with the pick this style is really effective for breakdown type sections once you interlock with the drummer man and get tight with him (or her) i promise you will both be smiling. i think that you really need to be in touch with your drummer and be very aware of what they are doing and try and compliment that aswell as the guitar and you will truly be that wicked bass player and then you will never play guitar again.

another thing i love to do when there is some really full on shred going down just back off and let the guitar do the shredding and just compliment with small amounts of the lead riff but just stick to something simple for the bass. there is nothing worse than when bands spend so long writing complex riffs and all you end up hearing is a blurr of distortion. sometimes just holding down the fort with the bass note is far more effective and when the crowd loses a bit of focus just thow in a few licks that remind them you can hold your own.

the ideas that i am putting foward are not anything new or exciting and is just common fact that most bass players know these things we are the glue that ties the melody to the rythum is does not matter what style of music you are playing but it is specific to bass and not something really explored in the guitar realm..

if you still are confused with what i am saying please just say so and i will put in some specific examples of what i am talking about

i am just super happy too see another metal bass player in the making but bro you need to get that rig playing bass is all about feeling it

good luck bro tell me how you go

cheers muther****er stay metal.

[helly]

Thanks to all of you, plenty of gold in this thread, just gotta dig through it and see what's what.. I didn't even think about Death or The Red Chord, love both of 'em, and I definitely need to take a closer look. As for the rig, trust me, I know. I'm rocking a real nice bass (nicer than I expected to have, anyway) but I'm still using a borrowed Backline 400, which is going to be getting the boot soon in favor of something more along the lines of a Sansamp PSA-1 and a decent 500 watt poweramp, probably Crown or something.

I've also been listening to Veil of Maya, as a fan at one of our shows compared me to their bassist, saying I was his second favorite metal bassist ever, apparently Higler from VoM is his first. Sure enough, he's really tight and the music is close to what I'm working at. Maybe I'll talk with him, he's from the same area I am.

[EviscerateNick]

check out erlend caspersen on you tube. if you like those metalcore bands this guy will blow you away

Knowing how to play with both fingers and pick will only help you. Also, in terms of palm muting on the bass, it helps when I mute generally over the bridge pickup instead of resting on the bridge like I would with a guitar.

I know you're into metal, but learning techniques normally learned in jazz, funk, fusion, reggae, or any other bass intensive genre (at least in comparison to metal) will help you greatly. Steve Digiorgio is one of the best pure metal bassists out there, but if you listen to his work on Dark Hall, his old jazz fusion project, he makes the bass work fit in perfectly.

If you haven't already also, check out Necrophagist, Obscura, Cynic, and anything with Steve Digiorgio on it, on top of what's been mentioned already. If you can play any of that, you won't need any advice we can offer.

There's a ton more great bassists out there that I'm not thinking of, you just have to research which bands have great bassists and which bands don't. You've come to the right place to do that.

[baalroo]

Good advice so far, my only addition would be to try to think in terms of rhythms and counterpoints. Often with tech-oriented metal everyone gets so trapped in double and tripling the riffs that there's nothing else going on, and that gets boring IMO. Work with the drummer to play around with syncopation against what the guitars are doing. Working out awesome timings with a drummer that COMPLIMENT the guitar instead of follow it is really fun and sounds sweet when done well.

[helly]

Originally Posted by baalroo

Good advice so far, my only addition would be to try to think in terms of rhythms and counterpoints. Often with tech-oriented metal everyone gets so trapped in double and tripling the riffs that there's nothing else going on, and that gets boring IMO. Work with the drummer to play around with syncopation against what the guitars are doing. Working out awesome timings with a drummer that COMPLIMENT the guitar instead of follow it is really fun and sounds sweet when done well.

That's a thought. Would you have an example?

[Traver]

Originally Posted by helly

That's a thought. Would you have an example?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms3rkheJbBE

[OADbassrape]

THE BOY WILL DROWN, VIRAEMIA, BRAINDRILL, I CAME TO HATE, INGESTED

[Beginner Bass]

Focus on rhythm. The right one can build a lot of tension in the song. Also work on counterpoint. Anything with pitch will naturally have pitches that stick out more than others. If the guitarist is playing some super-double-triple-ultra-mega-demonic-BROOTALZ-quadruple-fast tremolo, you don't have to play in sync with him. Look at the sticky on metal technique. Playing every 2nd not, 4thh note, etc., instead, can add some more meat to it. However there are times when you will need to play in unison.

[Lazarus.Bird]

Yuck. Did you compare Whitechapel's technicality to Cannibal Corpse? That makes me want to cry D:

[Beginner Bass]

Also, something I learned from walking bass, you don't have to hit the root to outline the chord. You don't have to hit the root. The 5th will also mesh with the 5 and dim5 chords. Many here will tell you that jazz will help you with everything you play. I agree.

[Raymeous]

I know that with a lot of fast paced technical stuff sometimes its hard to find any space to work with. Tool has great tunes and the bass is a dominant instrument but that also presupposes that there's any open space in the OP's music. I agree with the idea of cloning the kick drum every once in a while to solidify the song structure and let the thin stringers do their thing.

However another good example (Death was a great one btw) is Steve Harris of Iron Maiden. No it's not the same thing but if you listen you will notice that a lot of the time Steve just rides the "chord structure" while the guitarists do the harmony technical
bits.

Something else that I don't think has been mentioned, is your tone. In super heavy music guitarists tend to go with a ultra thick and chunky tone, i.e. extra bassy so having a thick bass sound my just turn into mush live. If you bring up your mids a bit you may punch through a little better and not get lost in the mix. I'm not saying go into the clanky Fieldy range 'cause he has no tone, but the fundamental idea is sound. If the guitars eq is doing this: v .... then you need your eq to do this ^