Teach me to walk the walk so my bass can talk the talk

Jeff Mills · #1 02-29-2012, 04:57 PM

There's a certain little syncopation some jazz bassists do when walking around a 4/4 beat with quarter notes. There's more than just hitting the quarter notes on time, but when you read the sheet that's exactly what it is... just quarter notes and maybe a few eights and sixteenths thrown in for good measure.

The feel is a hard for me to explain and wished I had a good example to point you. To top it off every player I've heard play this this technique sounds just a tab bit different. It seems to really highlight the bassists unique style. The technique has this certain kind of shuffle feel to it - like your just grooving down the street. Those who use it will know exactly what I'm talking about and hopefully will respond.

Sometimes I think it almost sounds like a muff just right before the beat - other times it sounds like two notes struck very close together. There are times I can get in the groove by double striking the notes one right before the beat and the next right one time or on beat and just after - like maybe a 32nd apart in time. I do this with my first and second fingers held together and just roll them up the string(s) thereby "double striking" the same as I would playing a note with a single finger but I'm using two. My technique just doesn't seem to groove the same. So I am obviously doing something wrong.

Can anyone give a guy the low down?

Thanks

tangentmusic · #2 02-29-2012, 05:14 PM

Dont overthink it. "Vibe it".
Most of this stuff is about feel & attitude.
Some of those type lines are "cool", Sometimes "playful" other times "loose" ect.
It's all in the 'tude.

younggun · #3 02-29-2012, 05:16 PM

You sure you can't think of an example or two, or maybe better yet find a video on youtube to post showing what you're talking about?

Jeff Mills · #4 02-29-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangentmusic

Dont overthink it. "Vibe it".
Most of this stuff is about feel & attitude.
Some of those type lines are "cool", Sometimes "playful" other times "loose" ect.
It's all in the 'tude.

Dude we gotta hook up one of these days to sit down and talk.

RL Scott · #5 02-29-2012, 05:21 PM

Sounds to me like you may be describing the dotted note, (half again as long) but I think tangentmusic is right. I never feel like I'm grooving until I can play the song without counting.

elgecko · #6 02-29-2012, 05:30 PM

I think the OP is talking about the use of dead/ghost notes and/or sextuplets to spice up walking lines.

tangentmusic · #7 02-29-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Mills

Dude we gotta hook up one of these days to sit down and talk.

Anytime.

Have you ever had those times when you were in a really good mood, and your playing with the band was joyous and fun and it all felt so great and spontaneous? Or been upset or frustrated when playing, and it came out aggressive and forceful? Or played after enjoying an adult beverage and played cool and loose? Or played or practiced alone by candlelight and got lost in the moment?

Mood and vibe will always have an effect on everything, musically or otherwise, that we do.

Sometimes we just have to let it flow.

onosson · #8 02-29-2012, 05:37 PM

I always think of it like dancing.

Jeff Mills · #9 02-29-2012, 06:07 PM

Ok so again hard to explain with just a keyboard but I will do my best -

When playing say just a starlight up 4/4 walk I feel triplets beating inside my body it goes like da da da dum da da da dum... dum is the beat but it's the da da da that's the feel. Sometimes it's da dum other times is dum da depending on the chord notes I'm playing at the time.

I hope you can understand my jibber

Thanks again

Jeff Mills · #10 02-29-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangentmusic

Anytime.

Have you ever had those times when you were in a really good mood, and your playing with the band was joyous and fun and it all felt so great and spontaneous? Or been upset or frustrated when playing, and it came out aggressive and forceful? Or played after enjoying an adult beverage and played cool and loose? Or played or practiced alone by candlelight and got lost in the moment?

Mood and vibe will always have an effect on everything, musically or otherwise, that we do.

Sometimes we just have to let it flow.

Oh yeah - I understand

younggun · #11 02-29-2012, 06:28 PM

Honestly, (I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I really do want to understand what it is you are referring to exactly as I'm curious) but there's just no way of knowing if what you ARE talking about is what I THINK you are talking about, without hearing an example, or being pointed to one. We can't know if we'd be talking about the same thing.

Jeff Mills · #12 02-29-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by younggun

Honestly, (I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I really do want to understand what it is you are referring to exactly as I'm curious) but there's just no way of knowing if what you ARE talking about is what I THINK you are talking about, without hearing an example, or being pointed to one. We can't know if we'd be talking about the same thing.

Your no jerk man - I'm the one with the problem trying to explain myself, your cool.

After searching you tube I think I found a good example of what I'm talking about as far as the timing goes... But have yet to find anything about the fingering technique.

Starts about 30 second and ends about 4:00 ---> How to improve your swing feel - WALKING BASS LESSON with Scott Devine - YouTube He explains it a a triplet based swing

Thanks for taking time to respond - I really appreciate it.

Russell L · #13 03-01-2012, 06:18 AM

Whatever it is, just make sure you hit the notes that are on the beat with a little more pressure (unless there's a "kick" there that must be addressed). Sometimes it helps to dedicate one finger for the beat and use another for the off-beat stuff. I believe I know what you're referring to. Another thing is, sometimes the off-beat notes can be the root of the chord. It makes for an interesting sound. Also, if we consider swing-time to be like 12/8 it is very common to hear any instrument playing that last 8th just before the beat, usually keyboard or guitar, but the bass can, too. It's a short, staccato sound that offsets the beat. It's really what gives a shuffle its groove. You can play it as a ghost note, but try using the root as I said, like this:

| 11 31 51 61 81 61 51 31 | where the first note in each group is on the beat. It can be tricky to finger it right once you start crossing more than one string. Try it slowly. You can begin with your second finger on the root. Keep it there for every time you come back to it, but don't keep it sustained, of course.

Dunno if that all made sense. Hope so.

Ed Fuqua · #14 03-01-2012, 06:18 AM

I wish I had my little gerbil in a wheel gif about now.
First of all, if you can't make 4 quarter notes swing, no amount of crap you pile onto them will make them swing.

But what you are talking about in your first post is generally a ghost note anticipation of a strong beat, sometimes it will be an eighth note with an actual pitch and then you have the triplet "bucket of s**t" cliche. But the bottom line is, a walking line is a quarter note line. Not a triplet line. I feel that all of this talk of "triplet feel" is misinformed and misguided, the thing that is going to drive your line forward is having notes that "lead" your ear from one chord change to the next.

Randyt · #15 03-01-2012, 08:36 AM

The whole evolution of the walking bass line can be very indepth and take you to a place on the bass you've never been..which is an incredible feeling.. but...if you want to make a walking line swing...you gotta play on 2 & 4....

azureblue · #16 03-01-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I wish I had my little gerbil in a wheel gif about now.
First of all, if you can't make 4 quarter notes swing, no amount of crap you pile onto them will make them swing.

But what you are talking about in your first post is generally a ghost note anticipation of a strong beat, sometimes it will be an eighth note with an actual pitch and then you have the triplet "bucket of s**t" cliche. But the bottom line is, a walking line is a quarter note line. Not a triplet line. I feel that all of this talk of "triplet feel" is misinformed and misguided, the thing that is going to drive your line forward is having notes that "lead" your ear from one chord change to the next.

what they are referring as "triplet feel" is how the swing is felt. There are more than one ways to swing- ahead of the beat, on it, behind it,sixteenth, dotted, and triplet. Swing is more about what you play or not play between the quarter notes. Little ghost notes, pick up notes, drops, etc., that propel the swing feel. Go listen to some Ray Brown for starters... Then hear it in context of a big band like Ellington's or Basie's

Russell L · #17 03-01-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azureblue

what they are referring as "triplet feel" is how the swing is felt. There are more than one ways to swing- ahead of the beat, on it, behind it,sixteenth, dotted, and triplet. Swing is more about what you play or not play between the quarter notes. Little ghost notes, pick up notes, drops, etc., that propel the swing feel. Go listen to some Ray Brown for starters... Then hear it in context of a big band like Ellington's or Basie's

Agreed, the triplet feel is there in swing. That's why it's easy to relate it to 12/8 or 6/8 time. Quarter notes alone can fit swing or straight time.

Ed Fuqua · #18 03-01-2012, 10:07 AM

There, now I can get it...

TC2112 · #19 03-01-2012, 10:14 AM

I'm thinking this may be a bad example of exactly what the OP is discussing as far as style of play, but I believe he is discussing ghost notes and anticipatory notes and Jamerson was the king of this IMO. Does this example fit the bill for you at all?
The four tops - Bernadette - YouTube

Jeff Mills · #20 03-01-2012, 02:26 PM

Found a 1/2 way decent example it's not as pronounced as I would like for an example. But hear the da da starting at about 1:03 then again around 1:06 again around 1:48 and 2:00 then the bassist is really doing the technique a lot more as the song moves on - really in the grove with the percussion. The percussionist even starts emphasizing the technique with beats starting about 2:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDkQMsdqvzM

What is this fingering technique?