Teaching yourself scales/chords

[orestes71]

Well, I am basically teaching myself at this point by doing finger excersises to help streghthen my fingers placing my fingers. I learning songs from bands I like that play on standard tuning and I jam out with some friends just playing around the G scale (the only scale I know). I want to get to the point where I can write or come up with simple basslines for my jams and my personal amusment. What should I do?

[MarkTAW]

This thread may help:

keys in a song.

[namraj]

scales are the same all up the neck, their just a shape. start you g scale on a 5th fret A and you have an A scale tho minor major will matter? once you got minors and majors down get ur modes

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by namraj

scales are the same all up the neck, their just a shape. start you g scale on a 5th fret A and you have an A scale tho minor major will matter? once you got minors and majors down get ur modes

While that may be true for a shapes and tabs dependent player, I defy you to show me the shape of a major, minor, dorian or any other scale on a piano, trumpet or saxophone.

Let me put this out there is bold type: If you learn to play all of your scales in all 12 keys by moving shapes around the fingerboard then you have not learned any scales.

If someone really wants to learn scales they need to either 1) Memorize every single note in every single scale in every single key or 2)Memorize the formulas for creating those scales and applying them to the notes on the fingerboard regardless of position, shape, octave, etc.

If you really want to learn all of those things, try retuning your bass to C G D A and play your scales like that. Where are your shapes now?

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

If you really want to learn all of those things, try retuning your bass to C G D A and play your scales like that. Where are your shapes now?

Exactly where I left them on my cello/mandolin/violin.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Exactly where I left them on my cello/mandolin/violin.

When did you start tuning your violin like that? (G D A E)

[MarkTAW]

You don't capo your mandolin? I never could get the darned things HIGH PITCHED and JANGLY enough.

[MrBorisSpider]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

While that may be true for a shapes and tabs dependent player, I defy you to show me the shape of a major, minor, dorian or any other scale on a piano, trumpet or saxophone.

Let me put this out there is bold type: If you learn to play all of your scales in all 12 keys by moving shapes around the fingerboard then you have not learned any scales.

If someone really wants to learn scales they need to either 1) Memorize every single note in every single scale in every single key or 2)Memorize the formulas for creating those scales and applying them to the notes on the fingerboard regardless of position, shape, octave, etc.

If you really want to learn all of those things, try retuning your bass to C G D A and play your scales like that. Where are your shapes now?

Why would you de-tune your bass like that in the first place?

You're right about learning the formulae, though. It's imporant to know what you're playing.

[GianGian]

Shapes are useful but you MUST know the notes you are playing. Playing piano or something like that would help a lot I guess.

[needmoney]

I've got a nice book that just lays out the most commonly used scales in notated form (no shapes or tab or any junk) in all 12 keys. On the opposite page is the steps formula of that scale (whole,half,etc.), where the scale is derived from, and what chords the scale works best with compared to other scales etc.

Whenever I'm trying to learn a new scale or mode in a certain key I flip this open and work out the scale slowly, saying the steps formula as I play, and then singing each note name (including sharp or flat). I do this very slowly until I really have it internalized and then I can start to speed it up and just go off the sound of the scale. Fingering wise I just play what is most efficient and comfortable.

Once that's done I work through Pacmans scale method in the General Instruction forum to get the scale down over the whole fretboard (whilst singing note names then the sound). Pacman advises to start on one key center per day and run all the scale types (C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, etc.), which is great advise but I think it's really important to know and understand the individual scale before doing this.

[Chrispurchase]

Originally Posted by needmoney

I've got a nice book that just lays out the most commonly used scales in notated form (no shapes or tab or any junk) in all 12 keys. On the opposite page is the steps formula of that scale (whole,half,etc.), where the scale is derived from, and what chords the scale works best with compared to other scales etc.

What's the book called i'm looking for one like that at the moment.

[needmoney]

Originally Posted by Chrispurchase

What's the book called i'm looking for one like that at the moment.

It's called 'Scales for Jazz Improvisation' by Dan Haerle, has all the commonly used scales in Jazz. If you want to dive further into scales then I'd look into Yusef Lateef's 'Repository of Scales and Melodic Patterns'.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by MrBorisSpider

Why would you de-tune your bass like that in the first place?

You're right about learning the formulae, though. It's imporant to know what you're playing.

Yeah. I've played mandolin & it's interesting getting used to the alternate shapes to play chords, but if someone stuck one in front of me & shoved me in front of an audience I'd be lost. I get lost whenever things are in alternate tuning as it is, but at least mandolins are tuned in a consistent (e.g. each string has the same ratio to the previous string) way & not to some sort of open chord or half chord.

You need to learn the shapes AND the reason behind them.

[GianGian]

Tuning in 5ths can be useful to extend the range of your bass. And somethings may become easier to play.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by GianGian

Tuning in 5ths can be useful to extend the range of your bass. And somethings may become easier to play.

True, and it could be useful for confusing the logical side of your brain and forcing you to just play what sounds good, or to give you fresh insight into the fretboard, like playing some Motown songs has done for me. Just a few bars in and Jamerson does something that makes me go "woah, why didn't I ever think of that?"

Other things become harder to play. Root, major 3rd, major 6th for example. There's a reason cello players are constantly flying up & down the fingerboard.

I may pick up a cello one day, they're really beautiful, expressive instruments...

[GianGian]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

True, and it could be useful for confusing the logical side of your brain and forcing you to just play what sounds good, or to give you fresh insight into the fretboard, like playing some Motown songs has done for me. Just a few bars in and Jamerson does something that makes me go "woah, why didn't I ever think of that?"

Other things become harder to play. Root, major 3rd, major 6th for example. There's a reason cello players are constantly flying up & down the fingerboard.

I may pick up a cello one day, they're really beautiful, expressive instruments...

I actually tried to tune in 5ths...but I gave up after some minutes
The nice thing about the cello is that it can be very melodic, but it has also a nice bottom end, must be awesome to play it.

[jsm81]

You should check out Scott Hubbell's books "Fretboard Alchemy" and "Fretboard Arcanum," then get yourself a good teacher. Just started down this road myself and unbelievable how much my skills have improved in just over a month. Been playing for a long time but never got much into theory or anything, now I regret never learning.