Is this a technique or equipment problem?

**butchblack** · #1 04-14-2008, 02:26 PM

Hi

My band recently started to record a new demo. When recording the bass it was noticed that the open strings, A especially, would resonate when playing other strings. I didn't have that problem on an earlier recording, but we're using better equipment to record this time. It got to the point where on some songs I wadded some paper towel between the bridge pup and the bridge and others the guitarist muted the other strings while I played. FWIW I was going direct into the board and had trouble with my other bass with interference hum.

So my question is, do you think it's a technique or equipment problem? I don't know if they saved any of the bad tracks but if you want you can listen to some earlier demo's by clicking on my band's link to confirm it wasn't there

jnuts1 · #2 04-14-2008, 02:31 PM

technique, you should work on muting the strings with your fretting hand & plucking hand. even if you don't hit those strings directly they will still put out some sound if you are not careful.

mimaz · #3 04-14-2008, 02:39 PM

I think I've gotta agree........that's most likely a technique thing. You can/should be using both hands to mute unused strings, be it live or in the studio. The problem is probably more obvious on the bass lines that are slower, have less motion, or more sustained notes......that's good news, since you will likely have the oportunity to mute more easily on those types of lines. However, it's important to be aware of the situation all of the time.

Mushroo · #4 04-14-2008, 02:53 PM

It is absolutely a technique issue... do a search on "muting" for some good tips.

Here's what works for me:

LEFT HAND
My left hand gently rests on the high strings, muting them. For example, if I am playing on the A string, my left hand rests on and mutes the D and G strings.

RIGHT HAND
I use a two-finger "rest stroke" technique. Let's say I'm playing repeated notes on the G string. I pluck the G string with my index finger, then the index finger comes to rest on the D string, muting it. I then pluck the G string with my middle finger, and it comes to rest on the D string. As the middle finger plucks, my index finger moves in the opposite direction, so that it is ready to pluck the next note.

If I'm playing primarily on the D and G strings, my right-hand thumb is between the E and A strings, slightly bent so that it touches and mutes both the E and A strings. If I am playing on the D and A strings, my thumb moves to the E string. If I need to play the E string, my thumb moves to the pickup or "floats" in midair.

It sounds like a lot to keep track of, but with a little bit of practice, it is second nature. In the example you mention, to stop the A string from ringing out, just move your right-hand thumb so it's resting on the A string, problem solved. If you are pick player, you can use your palm.

The studio is great for really focusing on your playing and hearing imperfections you normally miss. Good luck, and I hope the recording comes out great!

MarkTAW · #5 04-14-2008, 10:09 PM

+1 Mushroo. As a general rule, you mute the strings in the direction towards your palm. Your left hand mutes down towards the floor, your right hand thumb mutes up towards your body - you can use the strings as a thumb rest. FWIW I've been known to reach up with my middle finger when playing on the G string to mute the A string and so forth.

Questor · #6 04-15-2008, 07:00 AM

It's called "sympathetic resonance" and is definitely natural for it to occur. This is why you have to mute the unused strings as the others have noted.

As an experiment, slowly press down and hold the C4 (middle C) key on an acoustic piano so that it doesn't make any sound. Then strike C2 quite hard but don't hold it. C4 will resonate "in sympathy" to the C2 note that was just struck even though C2 isn't playing any longer.

JonathanD · #7 04-15-2008, 07:54 AM

+1 to Mushroo
Also, there is the "floating thumb" technique. I would look into that if you could.

Jonathan

wkbryan · #8 04-15-2008, 08:04 AM

Carol Kaye is probably the most recorded bassist in the world and has played all kinds of music and she says that she (and all other studio players) always muted their strings. She talks a lot about how to do this depending on your playing style (pick-v-fingers) and even has some pictures. I've learned a lot just reading her forums.

www.carolkaye.com

Marcury · #9 04-15-2008, 09:11 AM

Yes it is a technique issue and has to do with string muting. While your learning proper muting techniqye you might want to try putting a girls hair Skrunchie around the neck up by the nut, it will damp some pf the ringing.

Bassist4Life · #10 04-15-2008, 09:24 AM

I mute like crazy. Left hand and/or right hand when appropriate. I don't even think about it anymore.

Questor · #11 04-15-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkbryan

Carol Kaye is probably the most recorded bassist in the world and has played all kinds of music and she says that she (and all other studio players) always muted their strings. She talks a lot about how to do this depending on your playing style (pick-v-fingers) and even has some pictures. I've learned a lot just reading her forums.

www.carolkaye.com

I'll admit that I'm mostly a bass hack - what I've learned, I've learned from fiddling around, listening to others, but I haven't taken any formal bass instruction - so I don't surprise myself that I've never heard of her.

I'm on her site now, reading her bass tips, and I'm 100% enthralled. Wow.

wkbryan · #12 04-15-2008, 09:45 AM

She is an impressive lady and impressive musician. She freely shares an amazing wealth of knowledge. To me one of the most amazing things is how personnaly active she is on her web site. I have gotten a number of e-mail responses from her personally!

lamonica78 · #13 04-15-2008, 09:54 AM

While it does sound like technique, I would just check everything out about the bass to make sure nothing else is causing the buzzing.

Last time I was in the studio, we were getting some really funky buzzing sound out of my signal and we couldn't figure it out because I am constantly muting my strings. Turns out the washer on one of my strap locks was loose and causing a rattling sound that the p-ups were, well, picking up. Once we tightened it up, the buzz completely disappeared.

Questor · #14 04-15-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkbryan

She is an impressive lady and impressive musician. She freely shares an amazing wealth of knowledge. To me one of the most amazing things is how personnaly active she is on her web site. I have gotten a number of e-mail responses from her personally!

Uh. Yeah. Wow. I'm still in shock.

I've always played jazz by feel (read: I'm not good enough to play in public in this genre LOL), so I'm dying to see...wait! I'm going through the catalog now...there are guitar books!

Sorry folks. I know this is a bass site, but I've been a guitarist first for over 30 years (embarrassing that I'm not a "real" jazz guitarist, I know) so I feel like I'm a kid in a candy shop and a Black AMEX to boot.

(I guess this is a good time to offer a link to my website in case anyone wants to pick apart my bass or guitar playing.

http://www.shaven-goodness.info - have at it. LOL)

OMG I hate PayPal, and mailing them a money order is cumbersome. I guess I'm not getting that book after all.

wkbryan · #15 04-15-2008, 11:11 AM

trust me, it's worth the cumbersome!

Deacon_Blues · #16 04-15-2008, 03:22 PM

I agree it's a technique issue, just wanted to point out one thing: Last year I switched from playing a Warwick with quite flat neck to a '62 reissue jazz with 7,25" radius. On the jazz, I find it significantly harder than it was on the 'wick to make sure the E string doesn't ring out when I play on the G string. The larger radius simply doesn't allow my thumb to rest naturally on all lower strings.

I've discussed this with my bass teacher, and he said he has never have had the same problem. He hadn't even given that much thought.... He's playing almost only vintage jazz basses with this low radius. His "trick" is that he doesn't move his thumb up to rest against the D string like I do, and therefore the thumb is always muting the E and A strings. Perhaps I should start doing the same. It's just not as comfortable to me...

Mushroo · #17 04-15-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

I agree it's a technique issue, just wanted to point out one thing: Last year I switched from playing a Warwick with quite flat neck to a '62 reissue jazz with 7,25" radius. On the jazz, I find it significantly harder than it was on the 'wick to make sure the E string doesn't ring out when I play on the G string. The larger radius simply doesn't allow my thumb to rest naturally on all lower strings.

I've discussed this with my bass teacher, and he said he has never have had the same problem. He hadn't even given that much thought.... He's playing almost only vintage jazz basses with this low radius. His "trick" is that he doesn't move his thumb up to rest against the D string like I do, and therefore the thumb is always muting the E and A strings. Perhaps I should start doing the same. It's just not as comfortable to me...

There is no need to mute the D string with your right-hand thumb, if you use the two-finger technique to pluck with your right-hand index and middle finger. Whichever finger isn't actively plucking can rest on the D string, muting it. In other words, after you pluck the G string with one finger, that finger follows through and comes to rest on the D string.

Deacon_Blues · #18 04-16-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushroo

There is no need to mute the D string with your right-hand thumb, if you use the two-finger technique to pluck with your right-hand index and middle finger. Whichever finger isn't actively plucking can rest on the D string, muting it. In other words, after you pluck the G string with one finger, that finger follows through and comes to rest on the D string.

Yes that's true, but to me it's more comfortable to move to the D string instead of keeping the thumb between the A and E strings and stretch the rest of the hand to reach the G string. Perhaps I should start locking my thumb more and not move it as much as I do...

As mentioned this was never an issue on basses with flatter necks. 9,5" radius is already better, but I think the radius on the Warwick Corvette was closer to 20"...