Technique and Strings (Flats for Punk?)

Din Of Win · #1 08-02-2010, 12:06 PM

Hey all,

I wasn't sure if this would be better posted in the 'Strings' forum or this one... I picked this one, obviously, but if it's wrong, by all means, switch it!!

I'm one of those 'punk' bassists that uses mainly fingers. As of right now, between 2 bands, i'm about 80% fingers and 20% pick. It's the songs with lots of 16th notes that are making the jump to full-fingers a pain. I'm far more technically proficient with my fingers, so i'm up for anything that will help make the jump easier.

I'm practicing to build up my speed, and i was wondering if switching to flats would be 'faster'? I admit, i've never played flats in a band setting... in fact, the only time i've used them is when i was trying basses out at a store, but i never pluged one in.

From what i remember, they were super smooth, and i was thinking that they may make the faster playing a bit more manageable.

What do you all think?

A) Just get faster and stay with rounds.
B) Get flats.

mambo4 · #2 08-02-2010, 01:42 PM

Honestly I doubt Flats will get you more speed. Given the higher tension, they may even wear you out faster.

As a punk bassist you maybe used to plucking very aggressively (just a guess) but getting really fast requires a lighter touch. You can still have a very fast, aggressive attack without actually throwing all your muscle into it, but it does take getting used to (practice)

Jayhawk · #3 08-02-2010, 01:45 PM

I don't think flats, especially played finger style, will give you any kind of "punk" sound that I can think of. Most punk bass has that zing of rounds.

chrisbass0013 · #4 08-02-2010, 01:47 PM

stick with the rounds for the above reasons that about sums it up

Din Of Win · #5 08-02-2010, 01:57 PM

Right on. Stickin with rounds it is!

FWIW: I think people get into messy generalizations with things... i was hesitant to label myself as a 'punk' player for that reason. I have my own tone... it wasn't made emulate some over-arching general tone...

My sound and style are pretty close to these: (other finger-using punk bassists): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThcw...eature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXbPlFgSfao

I like the definition that fingers give that picking doesnt... it's just the held out rapid notes that are giving me troubles... i've been kinda faking it recently in attempts to get rid of the pick by mixing the straight 16th notes with 8th notes and some octave noodling...

pbass2 · #6 08-02-2010, 02:03 PM

OK, I'm not addressing your question here I admit, but, why do you want to give up playing with a pick entirely? Especially for punk that's a great sound to use for some (ok, many) things. I understand I guess if you want to put your own "style stamp" on the bands you play with of course. Personally (and FWIW I tour sometimes with a "well known" punk band, as well as other genres) I'd be outta work if my pick chops didn't equal my fingerstyle.
As for flats vs. rounds it's simply gonna be a different sound. Ironically, people always worry about "cutting through" on this forum so they go with zingy rounds, but with flats often you'll find in a guitar-heavy band setting you can actually get better definition-fingers or pick--you can carve out your own sonic space with them rather than trying to compete with the guitars. It just depends on how you want to sound.
Anyhow, if you wanna try flats having never used them, and you're playing rock, punk, etc. I'd suggest D'addario Chromes--they keep their brightness and clank for longer than many others. Maybe try those Steve Harris Rotos too(never tried them myself).

guroove · #7 08-02-2010, 02:09 PM

There's nothing wrong with playing punk on flats. Punk music is about giving everyone the finger including your TB peers, not about technique or string choice.

Din Of Win · #8 08-02-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guroove

There's nothing wrong with playing punk on flats. Punk music is about giving everyone the finger including your TB peers, not about technique or string choice.

I like you.

@pbass2: I've found i'm WAY more skilled/technical with fingers than i am a pick. I can control my tone better too. I like using a pick... and i still use it for other projects... in the 'punk' band though, i love my tone with fingers, as opposed to the pick. When playing fast runs using multiple strings, i get way too clumsy with just a pick, whereas i can get better deffinition with my fingers.

I'm not givin it up, trust me! Tonally though, it's really not too much of a departure... i use the big-ol' 2mm Dunlop Gator Grips which kiiiiiiiind of emmulate a finger tone.

This band's also not a "puuunk raaaawk" band... think more Ramones with a HUGE 60's Girl Group influence.... so basically i want to be Karl Alvarez mixed with James Jamerson

pbass2 · #9 08-02-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

Karl Alvarez mixed with James Jamerson

That is a badass!

makkE · #10 08-03-2010, 04:43 PM

I think flats+pick sound awesome for punk. Not too sure about fingers though, but they should give a nice fat bottom nevertheless. Maybe flats+fingers and a real low action = constant fret clack would sound cool too, since the fret clack you get with flats is really dry, woody and pronounced in my ears.

If you can afford a set of flats just try them out and see how you feel about them. I would recommend D'addario chromes, they have a lot of treble left for a flatwound, and come at a decent price.

Speed-wise: who knows, maybe flats help you, maybe not. To me, I like the high tension with fast fingerstyle, because the strings are tighter, giving me more control/less wobble, but maybe that's just me.

codeinedreams · #11 08-03-2010, 08:31 PM

now using flats to make it easier on your fingers wouldn't be very punk of you, now would it? dig in and feel the pain! haha j/k. I've played in punk bands and used my fingers and never had a desire to use flatwound. the speed just comes from you building up your stamina and endurance...

Din Of Win · #12 08-04-2010, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeinedreams

now using flats to make it easier on your fingers wouldn't be very punk of you, now would it? dig in and feel the pain! haha j/k. I've played in punk bands and used my fingers and never had a desire to use flatwound. the speed just comes from you building up your stamina and endurance...

Awesome. That's the perfect kinda answer i was hoping for.

Thanks, everyone!

trunkshope6 · #13 08-09-2010, 11:46 AM

ive had great results with a squier p bass and ernie ball flats and a stingray with ti's,and play in two punk bands,where rounds sound good as well,but i agree that some punk music can be dealt better with rounds,heaveier grindcore, 2step crap

precision punk · #14 08-24-2010, 10:15 PM

I play punk and ska with my 08 MIA Fender Precision strung with TI jazz flats right above the pickup with a pick and fingers. These are very low tension flats so when I first put them on I had to get used to not playing so aggressive. But once I got used to the tension, my finger style improved greatly with more speed and control. I learned that with these strings in particular the "woody bark" is easily achieved with not much force!

Low End Lover · #15 08-25-2010, 07:01 AM

To the OP:

I play punk, mostly 70's stuff, with a Ric 4003 and a set of Fender 9050 Flats. I really noticed I sounded great alone with the rounds, but when I played with others, I was fighting the guitar to be heard. Flats solved that problem. I think if you do try flats you'll find they don't sound great when you are playing alone, but when you are with the whole band, you will have a sonic space all your own and won't have to worry about trying to "cut through" because you will have your own sonic territory.
I think you owe it to yourself to try some Chromes. They're only around $20. I can say I am miles happier with my sound because the bass is thicker, punchier and easier to hear in a band setting with flats. Also, my Ric is an aggressive bass, so I think it could get 40 year old LaBella Flats to stand out!

my $.02 cents,

LEL

Surly · #16 08-25-2010, 07:08 AM

Listen to the Turbo A.C.'s ("Avenue X" may be a good example.). The bassist plays a Ric w/flats with a pick and some drive. Killer tone.
I play punk and have used both flats and rounds, and I have since switched to flats because I don't get lost in the mix. Talkbass has converted me to a flatwound lover. I agree with all of the pro-flats posts and saying that the bass sounds thicker and fuller.

SteveChatterton · #17 08-26-2010, 07:27 AM

This might sound crazy, but lately I've been practicing with flatwound strings while picking with a Dunlop 2mm Stubby pick. They're very short, designed for jazz guitar players, but they are wicked thick with a distinctively round edge. The tone is as close to finger-style I've ever been able to emulate with a pick. Haven't tried it in a band setting yet, but I'm hopeful.

+1 for the Karl Alvarez love. I did some opening gigs for All (prior to the Descendents reunion) & they were all great guys.

Gord_oh · #18 08-26-2010, 07:30 AM

i auditioned for a punk style band the other night with my pbass strung with flats.
its sounded good, but didnt cut through with my finger style playing, i found myself going with a pick.
it still have a similar sound, but cut through way better.

i love the sound i get from flats, but sometimes its just not enough.
if i end up going back i will probably take my jazz bass strung with rounds. pick or no pick? idk yet.