Their tone = Good.. My tone = Not so good?

[Snerek]

i go out in buffalo and here a lot of live music. being a bass player i'm very critical of tone and talent. however, lately when i got see a band live, i love they bass tones & then compare it to mine when i get to my practice space and i feel like i'm not getting what they are getting.

Tools:

schecter bass 5 string w/emg's
ampeg svt 4 pro
ampeg svt 6x10


Thats all i use, no pedals...i take a simple approach to my rig.

heres what i'm thinking.. i have a hard time judging my own tone. like i'm sure its good, but i wonder that its not. i feel like i'm rarely satisfied with my own sound, but maybe i'm just "too close" to my own style and playing.

whereas if i was in the audience i would say, damn sounds good!



anyone else feel like they are always trying to get "that sound"?

[Beej]

I have a few thoughts on this. I'm pretty happy with my own tone, but its certainly been a process getting there.

First off, how well do you know how everything works both on your amp and your bass? Experiment and record it over and over.

Second, have you ever recorded a jam and then listened to it after? For me, this is a good way to find out where my tone is missing or needs definition.

Thirdly, get someone you know to play your bass rig while its set up in your way and see if you like the tone when its not you playing. If it sounds good when someone else is playing it, it might just be your perspective when you're next to your amp.

Lastly, I know you said you like it clean, but experiment with effects. Lots of guys get their tone from the combination of effects they use...

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Snerek

i go out in buffalo and here a lot of live music. being a bass player i'm very critical of tone and talent. however, lately when i got see a band live, i love they bass tones & then compare it to mine when i get to my practice space and i feel like i'm not getting what they are getting.

Tools:

schecter bass 5 string w/emg's
ampeg svt 4 pro
ampeg svt 6x10


Thats all i use, no pedals...i take a simple approach to my rig.

heres what i'm thinking.. i have a hard time judging my own tone. like i'm sure its good, but i wonder that its not. i feel like i'm rarely satisfied with my own sound, but maybe i'm just "too close" to my own style and playing.

whereas if i was in the audience i would say, damn sounds good!



anyone else feel like they are always trying to get "that sound"?

A lot goes into a person's tone. Bass, amp, FX are obvious. But, there's also not so obvious things.
You can go out and buy identical get and setup it up identical to theirs, but you wont sound excatly like them. Just like I can go buy a Geddy Lee Sig and not sound anything like 'em.
A lot of tone, IMO, is "in the hands". How and where you play on the bass.
You could even go up on stage, take the bass an play, and you will probably sound different!
And, then, you also have to realize that while at a gig, you might be getting FoH sound through DI. Who knows what magic the soundguy could be working as well .

[Snerek]

all good points guys..

i have spent a lot of time with my bass/rig

but i have not recorded a jam and then listen to it. BUT

i think i just have a personal fixation with tone, and often thinking its not good enough.

because,

when i listen to old demos that i did 2 years ago, i'm impressed by my playing! but when the demo came out, i didnt like it, looking back, its good stuff

[chaosMK]

Use new strings, especially if you like a bright tone.

[Vanceman]

I think your fingers have a lot to do with. My fingertips are real hard, so if someone else picks up my bass at practice, it always sounds different than me. Sort of like the difference of playing with fingers vs thumb.

[SteveC]

Another thing to consider is in the audiance, you are not - or shouldn't be - hearing the stage amp. You are hearing PA. Big difference between stage sound and PA sound.

[Human Bass]

The grass looks greener...something like that.

[bikeplate]

HI

I believe that as players we get used to how we sound. When we here someone else, it sounds attractive because its not they way we sound. Same goes for lines, licks, approach to soling, etc. You probably sound good but are so used to yourself it sounds stale.

Rob

[Dincrest]

You're not alone, pal. We all get fixated on our tone. There are times I see bands play live and their bassist's tone simply gutpunches me. I always wonder if my own tone sounds as good to audience members as another bassist's sounds when I'm in the audience.

For me, though, I have the string fetish. I love trying new strings and have trouble settling on a winner. I'm always amazed at how different my tone can be based on strings. This year I've already sampled Rotosound RS66LDN Pure Nickels, SIT PowerFlats, and now have Fodera Diamond nickels. All very different animals.

[h00t]

I hated the way my rig sounded when I first started using it for gigs. Waay too "dirty" for my liking. But I realised that's because I was right in front of it with the 4X10 pointing right at my ears. Stepped out into the audience and suddenly it sounded exactly how I wanted it. Full, deep, and rich. Perhaps you have the same issue going on.
Another idea would be to see how others are EQing and learn from that.

[dTune]

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

A lot of tone, IMO, is "in the hands". How and where you play on the bass.
....
And, then, you also have to realize that while at a gig, you might be getting FoH sound through DI. Who knows what magic the soundguy could be working as well .

Couldn't agree more... Actually the tone doesn't even matter that much IMO. If you give a great player a bad rig, he'll probably still sound great. As to a less advanced player will not sound as good, no matter how good the rig.

[Phalex]

I'm not a fan of my own tone at practice, or from my stage monitor. I do have complete faith and trust in my sound guy, and people frequently come up and compliment me on my tone out front. I think it's supposed to sound like crap on stage, it's the FOH that matters.

[tdogg]

defintiely record yourself and your band. i have used this tool many times in crafting ,my tone. i usually set my eq flat and make adjustments from there and will get a long cable so i can stnd a ways back from my amp so i can hear the fully developed low Hz stuff. just a thought

[Red Wonder]

Originally Posted by bikeplate

HI

I believe that as players we get used to how we sound. When we here someone else, it sounds attractive because its not they way we sound. Same goes for lines, licks, approach to soling, etc. You probably sound good but are so used to yourself it sounds stale.

Rob

+1

Fingers, touch, and articulation define tone. Flatwound strings or roundwounds are another given when trying to discern one's tone.
But we're used to our own playing. You have to realize the perspective of the listener, or another player, who may be hearing you for the first time (or even the hundredth time). Everybody is different. That's the beauty of a musical instrument, infinite personalities manipulating infinite possibilities. Victor Wooten once said you could strap a bass on a newborn baby and it would be able to do things he never thought of doing. To us, it seems like we're just going through the motions, but to somebody else it sounds exciting, fresh, new, and most important, innovating.

[Nitto]

Snerek, i've only been playing for about 8 months but i've had a fun time developing tone because of an unforgiving system i play through... there are too many factors in tone, but these are the ones i can think of, and before i say anything: tone is unique to each person and is one of the most important aspects of you expressing yourself!

-(Obviously) your bass! Cheaper modern basses like my Fender mexican will have a lot of "Distortion mechanisms" e.g. the crappy polyurethane body lacquer, pickguard.. even the cheap plastic on the pickup covers and more, all contribute to making the bass sound less natural and "woody" and more like cheap plastic, which creates a muddy, plasticky tone, these can be fixed if you're that $erious about it. Also, each bass has a uniqe personality and some notes and techniques will sound better (or worse)than on other basses, so experiment with yours!

-Technique: so very important, i try to mix things up a bit by playing with my left (Yes i'm left handed) anywhere from the bridge to anchoring my thumb on the neck to get a boomy, carbonated sort of attack.
Also, i find using double stops, bending notes/vibrato can mix things up and keep it interesting. i've found that there can be quite a difference in anchoring with your thumb and not doing it, like when i play double stops i don't use my thumb to play the lower string because it's used to anchoring rather than playing notes which will make me play the lower string lighter, not giving an even sound or attack, rather using the index and middle with the tumb anchored to get an even sound

-Attack! the angle that you strike the strings at is important, personally i've learnt 45degrees to be good because you're pounding the strings into the body rather than across, and it still brings the neck into the sound, muting also changes the attack and can give a punchier sound to mix up a pallete of tones into your playing, just think of gravity when you experiment, the strings will tend to even out and go straight up and down quickly after striking, so keep in mind that your initial attack is where you leave an impression!

-Your equipment of course, your equipment is also a big factor, there are millions of options to choose.
-Different size speakers produce different sounds, larger speakers will produce lower frequencies but at the expense of being less able to handle sudden surges and transients (e.g. whacking strings against the 'board, plating harder) whereas smaller drivers will not handle as much bass but because of lower moving mass they are often much more nimble and have much less trouble handling intricate harmonics and overtones and whatnot

-The great "Sealed versus ported" debate! sealed cabinets and ported cabinets, again, behave differently. An important thing to note is that in the ever competitive mainstream bass cabinet market, ported is almost always going to win because it has "lower frequency extension" and is admittedly more sensitive and easier to drive with lower power, cheaper amplifiers. Sealed on the other hand, personally does it for me because while typically giving less sound per watt, it has some sneaky advantages: better transient response for the size of the driver and it's much more "room mode" friendly (a little known characteristic of rooms where you get a free half-octave boost on top of the cabinet's lowest frequency) which gives it a clean low end response pretty much equal to what a sealed cabinet will do but with "less mess". Food for thought

-amplifiers, compressors, effects amplfiers are a personal thing, if you want clean powerful sound you might need to spend a little bit more, one thing to look for is a huge power transformer inside the amp (so important for bass amps) so it can handle sudden gains, which will give you a lot of room to experiment with your playing. Personally, effects would only be a last resort for boosting my normal tone, and compressors, while evening out the notes and making the bass sound more "percussive" or "punchy" etc tend to take away from the raw emotion and expression of the bass for me (Plus, wooten has ruined my outlook on compressors, his playing seems to rely on them too much IMO)

-EMOTION, for me, the most important aspect of playing and tone. If you have pain, anger, love, loss, joy... anything and you really mean it, you WILL find ways to work that into your music! it brings up a quote that i read recently (and i finish on this note) when Randy Jackson met and played with Miles Davis, after they played, Miles turned to him and said:
"Now Randy, today you played a lot of notes, but how many of those notes did you feel?"

Peace out Snerek, i hope my mad ramblings have helped your bass journey, despite my inexperience. Keep grooving dude

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Snerek

i go out in buffalo and here a lot of live music. being a bass player i'm very critical of tone and talent. however, lately when i got see a band live, i love they bass tones & then compare it to mine when i get to my practice space and i feel like i'm not getting what they are getting.

Tools:

schecter bass 5 string w/emg's
ampeg svt 4 pro
ampeg svt 6x10


Thats all i use, no pedals...i take a simple approach to my rig.

heres what i'm thinking.. i have a hard time judging my own tone. like i'm sure its good, but i wonder that its not. i feel like i'm rarely satisfied with my own sound, but maybe i'm just "too close" to my own style and playing.

whereas if i was in the audience i would say, damn sounds good!



anyone else feel like they are always trying to get "that sound"?

You may be saying more than you think with the phrase "too close". On stage with a band you're often pretty much right next to your rig or not far enough away to hear it projected in the same way you would from further out in the room.

I've believed this to be true for a while, but going wireless has really brought it home to me - your amp sounds better when you're a decent way away from it (say, 25ft or more) rather than when you're standing right on top of it. Much clearer, stronger, less muddied tone.

[DocBop]

A couple things. First you need to get away from the amp to hear what it really sounds like. Especially the larger the speaker the futher the sound projects. Get a long cord or wireless unit, find a friend who technique is similar to yours to play your rig for you.

Most your tone comes from your hands. Funny how long it takes most players to realize this, they buy lots of gear to find they just need to learn more about playing their bass. A lot of your best player you will discover play their bass with the volume full up and many the tone too. That way the pickups are sensitive to everything that happens on the bass (good and bad.) This forces you to learn to control your volume with your hands. Doing this a light touch can produce a big note, and leaves you lots of head room when needed. Then for tone start moving around and discover the different tone available when playing by the bridge, over top of each pickup, and up by the neck. Playing up by the neck can produce a big fat tone and being away from pickups a lot of little playing noises start to disappear.

Even though I say work on playing with the volume all the way up, experiment and listen to change in tone if you back off the volume. It can darken the sound some. Then you amp same thing. Most amps have gain and master volume these days. To me solid state amps work better when I run the gain as high as I can cleanly get it or the bass (varies with active and passive.) Amps I've been using lately have overload lights so I adjust so light is just starting to come on when I dig in. Then I bring up the master volume to what I need for the gig. That is similar to running volume on bass all the way up. With gain up everything I do on the bass is being reproduced. Tube amps are respond different and have to work with the gain to get a feel for point it starts to add grit. Then the EQ on the amps need to learn to things. First need to train your ears to understand bass, low mid, high mid, and treble so when you want to add or reduce something. Then different amps set their EQ frequecies at different points. Need to experiment with your amp enough to really know your amp.

So besides learning to adjust your volume and tone with your hands, you need to learn your bass and amp. It takes awhile to learn your gear and all the sound it offers. That is why you see really good players don't change their gear a lot, they've spent a lot of time learning what they have and don't want to go through than again. Like Marcus Miller says in his latest DVD, that his bass isn't the greatest Fender made, but its his and he knows the good sounding notes, the bad sounding notes, the different sounds it can get and how to use all that to his advantage.

[cb56]

Buy a wireless and go out into the audience while playing. I suspect that your opinion of your tone will change. And I'm not just saying this because I have a wireless for sale in the accessories for sale section. Just a coincidence that I do.

[olalo]

Originally Posted by cb56

Buy a wireless and go out into the audience while playing. I suspect that your opinion of your tone will change. And I'm not just saying this because I have a wireless for sale in the accessories for sale section. Just a coincidence that I do.

+1.

I sometimes grab a coke in the middle of rehearsal or go out for a smoke and usually my guitar player starts noodling on bass... it always affects me how good it sounds when you get a proper distance and you are not actually paying attention to what you play...or for this matter, when you are not playing.