Thinking about fretless....

Bass-desires · #1 09-14-2009, 08:03 AM

Hey, all

I was thinking more and more about going fretless. I, however have never played one. I really like the look and the idea of no fret noise. I do realize how difficult it is....from what I hear....but what do you fretless players say?

I am getting an under $100 fretless of the bay just to try it out and see if I like it.

I need tips from you guys on how I can learn effectively without getting mad. haha!

gidbass · #2 09-14-2009, 08:10 AM

Is it lined? Lined fretless is what has helped me. Also, when playing my fretted bass, i try to fret the note as close to the fret as possible, to help minimize adjustments when playing between the two.

Lastly, get it set up! when i got mine, a squire vm fretless (which i love), the action was high and the neck had relief. I set it up myself and now my neck has no relief or back bow, and my action is very low (beauty of fretless). Also, this is personal preference, but a set of Chromes (medium gauge) really sounds awesome (to me anyways) on a fretless.

Good luck!

unclejane · #3 09-14-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

Hey, all

I was thinking more and more about going fretless. I, however have never played one. I really like the look and the idea of no fret noise. I do realize how difficult it is....from what I hear....but what do you fretless players say?

I am getting an under $100 fretless of the bay just to try it out and see if I like it.

I need tips from you guys on how I can learn effectively without getting mad. haha!

Well that was reason #1 I went to fretless - I hate that clicky clack of the fretted and just never could get a good tone on one. So if you ask me you're doing it for a good reason

.

I'd just start off playing your standards on it. Since you already know the fingering patterns and shapes, you can give more concentration to playing them in tune without the frets.
I'd also start using, say, Steve Bailey's intonation exercises where you practice playing octaves and other intervals solely for the purpose of learning to control your intonation. A couple of those are on youtube - I never actually did these and now years later I'm following his exercises. They're actually very challenging and it has helped my intonation already.

If I were starting over I'd use his practice regimes from the git-go.....

LS

REAPER52 · #4 09-14-2009, 08:18 AM

Well i just made that jump to fretless a couple weeks ago . I too had never played one, but i really liked the sound of one. I found that it was not nearly as difficult to pay as i was expecting. In fact i gave my fretted bass to my son and dont see myself going back to a fretted bass. It came with DR Sunbeams and i changed them to TI flats . WOW . If you like the fretless sound i say go for it . Get it lined and youll be surprised how easy the switch will be.....

Asher S · #5 09-14-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

I need tips from you guys on how I can learn effectively without getting mad. haha!

Take your time and accept the fact that your intonation will be far from perfect for a long time
Practice against a constant tuner tone or a recorded track
Your ears, not your eyes, are your best friends when playing fretless: LISTEN to your notes
Practice octaves, listening for that out of sync vibrato that you'll hear when you're not quite on the octave
For that "mwah" sound: turn up the mids on your preamp (if you have one), and pluck over the neck
Don't go nuts with vibrato to cover up poor intonation. In fact avoid it entirely for the first while and use your ears.

Enjoy- it's a very expressive instrument and can be quite addictive.

Billnc · #6 09-14-2009, 09:10 AM

Jamey Aebersold has some play alongs that are just major chords, minor chords and dominant chords. I play to those to sharpen my ear. for minor7b5 I play the dominant play along (i.e. Bm7b5 over the G7) or the minor (i.e. Dmi7b5 over the Fminor play along) play long slow chord tones and listen! I switch it up, sometimes swooping up and down 1 string to work on that muscle memory, and playing in position for that muscle memory, listen to the effect of thirds, 7ths etc, the beauty of fretless is we can intonate each note to the chord, also the grey areas of b5 to 5 and b7 to 7 and the b3 to 3 in the blues are very cool to mess with on fretless.

As always I like TJIF's for strings. You might like the higher tension of chromes though. Oh, the chord substitutions above are based on Pat Martino's conversion to minor system. I just reversed it for the above exercizes.

Also, I found fretless fairly easy, though it still requires daily practice after 20 years. The instrument can be unforgiving. You can also effect mwah with left hand pressure.

Roonz · #7 09-14-2009, 03:35 PM

You gain a great deal of freedom in your playing when you have to rely on your ear to guide your left hand instead of the frets. I come from a violin background, so fretless is natural for me. I've seen the lined fretless basses, and they are OK, but not necessary. You get used to fretless really fast, so don't worry.

The fretless sound is different and more flexible, IMO. Just be sure to get flat-wound strings for the right sound, and to save your fretless fingerboard.

Trust your musical ear, and do it.

Roonz

BigOldHarry · #8 09-14-2009, 03:45 PM

There is no think; Only DO!

DaZombieWoof · #9 09-14-2009, 03:50 PM

I remember a lot of players who thought it was cool until they realized it negatively impacted their alcohol consumption.

Fretless is a lot more effort, but proportionally more rewarding of every personal nuance.

Billnc · #10 09-14-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaZombieWoof

I remember a lot of players who thought it was cool until they realized it negatively impacted their alcohol consumption.

Fretless is a lot more effort, but proportionally more rewarding of every personal nuance.

Funny, I wondered why I drink so little these days!

MrLenny1 · #11 09-14-2009, 06:30 PM

AsherS said it all.

steve f · #12 09-14-2009, 06:38 PM

I found it helpful to go back to bassics when learning to play fretless. Use "upright" technique - stop the strings with the index, middle, and small fingers. The ring finger just follows and helps the small finger. As you get higher up on the board you can use one finger per 1/2 tone. I also find it helpful sometimes to use thumb position on a fretless when you get up very high on the neck for quick runs. Good luck!
I don't have one right now but I'm doing my research...

Michael Henson · #13 09-15-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billnc

As always I like TJIF's for strings. You might like the higher tension of chromes though.

What are TJIF's? I've got Chromes on my fretless now but I definitely prefer strings with lower tension...

Billnc · #14 09-15-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Henson

What are TJIF's? I've got Chromes on my fretless now but I definitely prefer strings with lower tension...

Thomastik Infeld Jazz Flats, they have advocates that feel as strongly as the Chromes crowd. To me they behave a bit more like a string, they are big strings with low tension. The Chromes behave a bit more like a bar. They are expensive, but their life is measured in years. I love the sound and feel. I do not feel they'd be great on fretted.

unclejane · #15 09-15-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Henson

What are TJIF's? I've got Chromes on my fretless now but I definitely prefer strings with lower tension...

I have TIJF's on my carvin bunny 6 FL and I don't think I'll ever use another type of string again. I still have Chromes on my G&L's, but if my kidney donation comes through, I'm buying sets for those which I still play on rare occasions.

The difference in tension between TIJF's and even the Chromes is dramatic and so is the sound and playability. You can get a lot of bark out of the JF's even with a light touch. The instrument is also quite a bit happier without so much tension on the neck. Finally, your hands thank you too since you don't have to press down/hammer as hard as before....

LS

Asher S · #16 09-15-2009, 09:30 AM

I like D'Addario ECB80 chrome flatwounds on my fretless. They are a nice light gauge (40 60 75 95), very full & rich sounding but still with clarity and plenty of "mwah". They also last a long time and are relatively affordable for flatwounds ($29). They feel great under the fingers too.

If you get to the point where you're comparing sets of flatwounds, I suggest also trying a set of Sadowsky flatwounds, although they are a bit pricier at around $40.

Michael Henson · #17 09-15-2009, 09:42 AM

Nice...now I have to go out and buy some of those TIJF's...I totally agree with the description that the chromes are like a bar...very tight...

squashedOpossum · #18 09-15-2009, 09:52 AM

Don't forget about La Bellas. I alternate between Chromes and La Bella 760FM-B for my fretless 5. IMO, the Chromes have a brighter, roundwound sound, where the La Bellas have a more EUB sound.

Jim Carr · #19 09-15-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

...I was thinking more and more about going fretless. I, however, have never played one.

My advice is to try more than one. Don't be seduced by a low price tag, looks, or lines. Use your ears and hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

I really like the look and the idea of no fret noise.

Fret noise can be essentially eliminated by good technique. Switching to fretless because "I really like the look" strikes me as childish. Find musical reasons or forget it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

I do realize how difficult it is....from what I hear....but what do you fretless players say?

How can you possibly evaluate "how difficult it is" based on TB chatter? Do it yourself and stop caring so much about how hard it might be. That will just paralyze you.

Wait, no--just watch youtube and eat pizza, OK? No worries, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

I am getting an under $100 fretless off the bay just to try it out and see if I like it.

So, if it seems unmusical, hard to do, but looks cool, who or what is to blame? Get a good instrument and a teacher, for heaven's sake!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

I need tips from you guys on how I can learn effectively without getting mad. haha!

You can't. With no fire, there is rarely heat.

Liberty Citizen · #20 09-18-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

My advice is to try more than one. Don't be seduced by a low price tag, looks, or lines. Use your ears and hands.

Fret noise can be essentially eliminated by good technique. Switching to fretless because "I really like the look" strikes me as childish. Find musical reasons or forget it.

How can you possibly evaluate "how difficult it is" based on TB chatter? Do it yourself and stop caring so much about how hard it might be. That will just paralyze you.

Wait, no--just watch youtube and eat pizza, OK? No worries, right?

So, if it seems unmusical, hard to do, but looks cool, who or what is to blame? Get a good instrument and a teacher, for heaven's sake!

You can't. With no fire, there is rarely heat.

Dr. Carr, yours is the best post of the day. Congrats