Throw away the metronome?

Rattlehead · #1 08-10-2007, 03:25 PM

Ok, the title of this thread was somewhat misleading - I did this to attract attention.

I by all means endorse the use of a metronome to ... well to pretty much improve your playing in every way possible.

BUT I've been noticing alot recently how much classical music uses changes in tempo to help accentuate and embellish stuff. Especially solo piano stuff (Chopin for instance).

This thread is basically just a place to throw thoughts out there about this.

Here are my thoughts:

If you're always stuck playing to a strict tempo maker (be it a band, drummer, or metronome), then you probably won't develop the ability to do this. Now I know bass isn't exactly the most likely virtuoso instrument, but I definately see how this skill can be very useful in many band and solo situations.

Now, you might object, the best way to be able to steadily increase or decrease your tempo is still by playing with metronomes or drummers. I agree. But that's not all there is to it. Often piano players DON'T steadily increase or increase the tempo - it can be quite erratic. I guess its nearly impossible to get a band to do this together and stay on time with each other though ... anyone know of any bands that do?
Hell, I can hardly think of bands that have steady tempo increases or decreases (I think these are called accelerando and ... decelerando?). Usually all tempo changes have no transition at all on albums - they are just sudden: one part ends and the next one begins at a faster tempo. And it is rarely by too great a difference (like 15% change max).

MammaryVest · #2 08-10-2007, 03:51 PM

If you want to practice changing tempos, I guess the best way would be to play along with a recording that does that. I think metronomes are more of a way to improve your natural time, you know like you're playing to a metronome even when you aren't playing to a metronome. Which is good to do, because even if you end up changing tempos, you still need to play on time.

chicagodoubler · #3 08-11-2007, 02:40 PM

Music naturally speeds up when it gets exciting. Ever notice how rock albums before disco are so much more awesome? The click track killed the groove on alot of records. Check out the Basie band- they rush like hell sometimes, but they *rush together!*

Just play with good players; stay married to the metronome though.

iceshaft07 · #4 08-11-2007, 07:04 PM

Take me out - Franz Ferdinand.

Look it up on you tube, they have a music video. It is actually a really good tempo change, I love it. I can lock in with it pretty good, you just need to get a feel for it.

Anyhow, I think you have to look at the purpose of a metronome; It is to teach you how to lock in, not how to change tempo. That would be a pretty cool metronome that was capable of being programmed though (I have only used www.metronomeonline.com)

meev992 · #5 08-11-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceshaft07

Take me out - Franz Ferdinand.

playing along with the recording bugs the heck out of me, for sure. If it were up to me, my drummer and I would be dictating the tempo changes; things can get messy on that song

kirkm24 · #6 08-11-2007, 07:54 PM

I think there is a point where the "pocket" can move around some. The most important thing is that drummer and bass stay together. Everyone else will follow suit, especially if it is a subtle change. That has been my experience anyway. I've also always felt that there is a tempo within the tempo meaning you can play behind or ahead of the rhythm but not necessarily be dragging or rushing. In that respect I think there can be some flexibility as well.

magnusdeus123 · #7 08-12-2007, 09:32 AM

Kirk is onto the most important point . See the thing is in those classical settings , the backend for timing was already set VERY solidly . The Lead's usually had all the freedom in the world to move onto more variable tempo's because in the pianist's head he could always feel that "Thump.....thump.....thump" that the bassists or the low-end instruments were providing . Bass-ically , the Metronome was never meant to give you the ability to think in terms of speed changes , it was made for you , akin to that pianist , be able to figure out a 'thump' within you , by memory of playing with the metronome constantly . If you know the beat in your head perfectly , you can go all around the place with variable tempo's , but still keep that bit of information handy in the back on your brain .

Take a defensive approach to the entire thing , because it's not about attacking with time , it's protecting it.......

Dave Martin · #8 08-12-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

BUT I've been noticing alot recently how much classical music uses changes in tempo to help accentuate and embellish stuff. Especially solo piano stuff (Chopin for instance).

Well, orchestral music typically has a conductor leading the way with tempo changes, and solo piano works (or cadenzas that are part of a larger piece) that are out o time are typically intended to be so, and are denoted as such in the music. it's a different school of thought in a different musical genre - one that isn't related to the beat as contemporary music is.

If the music that you play requires tempo changes, I'd suggest that you rehearse those changes with the other musicians, and while rehearsing, watch and listen to everyone else.

Umm, you might keep in mind that most drummers would be really unhappy with a bass player who feels that speeding up and slowing down is part of his 'style'.

Chunk-O-Funk · #9 08-12-2007, 11:19 AM

Having a good meter, and changing tempo should be viewed as two different things and one should not affect the other.

Speeding up or slowing down a tempo is altogether different from a tempo change.

Changing the feel of the tempo is also different.

The best rock example I can think of is Chicago. In their live performances they tie a few of their tunes together in their opening set and seamlessly go through a few tempo changes.

There are also subtleties in the feel of a tempo that can give the song the feel of a tempo change, but not really changing the tempo, which is playing behind the beat, or ahead of the beat. The most common feel for behind the beat is a blues shuffle. Ahead of the beat would be a swing feel. It's not uncommon to use that technique in different sections of a song to give one section a forward motion feel without speeding up the tempo.

Like already mentioned, nobody in a band appreciates someone who actually speeds up or slows down a tempo in a song.

Stroker · #10 08-12-2007, 01:27 PM

Don't forget the Doors. They changed tempo anytime Jim went off on one of his drug enduced speaches.

grovest · #11 08-12-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

BUT I've been noticing alot recently how much classical music uses changes in tempo to help accentuate and embellish stuff. Especially solo piano stuff (Chopin for instance).

I'll repeat some comments already here.

In an orchestra there is a conductor, or at least a lead player that signals tempo changes- and not just that the tempo is changing but also what the new tempo is. More over, these changes are usually indicated in the original score. In other words, it is not that the players are getting excited or "bored" or xyz and changing tempo as their heart guides them. They are following the very changes that the composer stated, perhaps 100s of years earlier.

In your observation about solo pianists, which is not incorrect, the more important detail is that these musicians are playing SOLO, not that their tempo changes.

Practicing with a metronome is a great idea. It teaches you to calibrate your internal 'clock' and maintain that beat throughout. If you have played with a drummer that rushes or drags you may find yourself literally physically exhausted afterwards.

It's possible to add subtle touches like playing 'in front' or 'behind' the beat. Or even playing double-time, two feel, swing or straight- all of these changes can suggest more or less 'excitement'.