Tone/articulation in Metal!

[Donald Cajonn]

I recently joined this metal band after playing everything from R&B to jazz for the last 6 years. It's been a lot fun.

Finding a good tone has been difficult. I'm finding that i have cut the lows considerably and really boost the mids so i can cut through the mix. Unfortunately it's not working too well.

they also want me to start using a pic for chugs etc. however I'm playing the chugs spot on and I don't want to use a pic. Any advice on articulation so each strike is heard better??

thanks!

[TreetarDed]

Don't switch to a pick if you don't want to! There's plenty of ways to get a good metal tone using fingers. While there's some metal player that cut through well with the "boosted low end" sound, you're on the right track with your EQ. Mids are everything when it comes to breaking through the wall of distortion.

Another thing is to make sure you have fairly new round wound strings, a lower action so you can get the "click" of the strings hitting the fretboard. Although it may seem obvious, make sure your amp has enough power. You don't need the whole Ampeg SVT + 810 cab or anything, but make sure you have at least 300 watts through a 410 or similar. I use an ampeg pf500 and SVT410hlf and I've never had a problem cutting through. We typically play bars, but I've played 500 person venues and outdoor shows without PA support with little trouble.

Not sure what subgenre you play, but I'll link a few modern thrash bands that have fingerstyle bassists that cut through really well. The key is experimentation, keep messing with the knobs on your amp/bass til you find something that works. Good luck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeGEdgh9vk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJqFe36gSgw

[Mushroo]

I've been in your shoes, I feel your pain!

First and most importantly, make sure you have enough power. If you think your cab is big enough, get two. If you think your amp is powerful enough, double the wattage. If feeding into the PA is an option, do it!

Second, if a particular song sounds better with a pick, then use a pick. Part of being a mature player is putting ego aside and making the music always come first. Fingers and pick simply sound different, it's a fact, and therefore it is completely understandable for your bandmates to have a preference. If it's a cover song, and the band puts their own "spin" on it, then you might be justified performing a song that was originally played with a pick using your fingers. But if it's an original song by a band member, and the writer of the song is asking you to use a pick, then do it.

Third, I've found the secret for cutting through in any situation is technique. Most particularly right-hand technique. The trick is to find the right picking/plucking location between the bridge and the neck, and playing with just the right touch and amount of force, to emphasize exactly the right frequencies to cut through.

Finally, there is no "magic" combination of bass/strings/amp/effects/gear to make the perfect metal sound. TreetarDed plays roundwounds with low action; I play flatwounds with medium action. If you listen to the metal discography, you'll find a wide range of sounds/tones. Figure out what works best for you, in that band, for the song, in the moment. Good luck!

[Unrepresented]

"Metal" is a pretty broad genre, but I agree you're on the right path with cutting lows. Kicks are usually running crazy on the low end and guitars are usually scooped to make you redundant. I also agree you're on the right path with building mids up. One thing that helps me is a little mild overdrive. Something to bring the harmonic content up so your "clank" and "growl" cuts through without sacrificing note definition. Too much and you drop out completely, however, so it's a fine line.

[TreetarDed]

^ Very true! The way you hit the strings + where you hit them at makes a world of difference in what comes out of your amp. Although most of the users will discount it on this forum, I firmly believe you have the most freedom tone-wise in the metal genre when is comes to equipment and EQ. Most other genres have a set of standards (while not necessarily set in stone) when it comes to bass gear. You go to a metal show with some reputable bands, you'll never see anyone playing the same thing. Look up some of your favorite bassist's rigs and take notes on how they play.

[IPYF]

I use a mid-based overdrive for my cut. My bass is jangly too which really helps. The other thing to do is try a dynacomp or similar to round out your attack.

Also, don't worry about the picking bits. I played with a metal band the other night who were used to a pick player and my finger style freaked them out. I was way faster than their old guy even with fingers but it's a completely different style and it produced a radically different tone. It can put people who are used to a pick style metal player offside really quick.

Also, what I did when I started playing metal was to do a simple exercise with my picking hand. Practice with one note, speeding your two-finger style up and slowing it down, but the key is to make sure that you keep a consistent volume. That will tighten up those chugging parts, definitely.

[Midfour]

I feel like every third thread on this site is about metal tones.

And as for actual advice: mids, mids, mids. You're actually probably fine setting your mids as high as they go and putting your bass and treb nearly bottomed out. As far as lows go it's a game of bass guitar v. kick drum, and kick drum is going to win that ten times out of ten, espescially in metal (though some lows might be good for sheer physical effect if you can avoid murking up the place, which is hard). W/r/t highs cymbals and guitars will swallow those up, so don't bother putting them any higher than necessary to make your bass sound likes it's not coming from a different room.

Note that this operates on the assumption that the guitars are scooped. If you're in some kind of sludge band with guitars that emphasize mids and lows (High on Fire swamp demon sort of deal), then just resign yourself to only being audible during the obligatory bass-riff intro on longer songs. Or just quit.

[JimmyM]

Go listen to some of Cliff Burton's soloed bass tracks on Youtube and make your bass sound like that.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Go listen to some of Cliff Burton's soloed bass tracks on Youtube and make your bass sound like that.

I disagree. Cliff was a buried, spongy blob in the mix. I would not consider his tone "articulate" at all. It wasn't until the Black album that the bass started to reach into the articulate territory. I would say Megadeth did a better job of balancing bass in the mix with a strong pick attack and high cutting mids.

[Midfour]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

I disagree. Cliff was a buried, spongy blob in the mix. I would not consider his tone "articulate" at all. It wasn't until the Black album that the bass started to reach into the articulate territory. I would say Megadeth did a better job of balancing bass in the mix with a strong pick attack and high cutting mids.

It's true that Burton was buried and murked in the mix, though I think that's the engineers' fault more than his (he definitely had the right idea with his boosted mids). And if Megadeth had a clearer bass in the mix I'd say that this was partially at the expense of a monster guitar tone, which (even though Mustaine is a good enough player to get away with sounding thin) is probably more important in metal than a clear bass, considering that guitars do most of the musical anchor-work in metal and the bass is mostly there to add physical heft rather than musical dynamics.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Midfour

It's true that Burton was buried and murked in the mix, though I think that's the engineers' fault more than his (he definitely had the right idea with his boosted mids). And if Megadeth had a clearer bass in the mix I'd say that this was partially at the expense of a monster guitar tone, which (even though Mustaine is a good enough player to get away with sounding thin) is probably more important in metal than a clear bass, considering that guitars do most of the musical anchor-work in metal and the bass is mostly there to add physical heft rather than musical dynamics.

"Metal: where bassists are to be seen and not heard"

[Midfour]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

"Metal: where bassists are to be seen and not heard"

Not seen, felt. But mostly not heard.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Midfour

Not seen, felt. But mostly not heard.

The OP is looking for how to be heard though.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Midfour

It's true that Burton was buried and murked in the mix, though I think that's the engineers' fault more than his (he definitely had the right idea with his boosted mids). And if Megadeth had a clearer bass in the mix I'd say that this was partially at the expense of a monster guitar tone, which (even though Mustaine is a good enough player to get away with sounding thin) is probably more important in metal than a clear bass, considering that guitars do most of the musical anchor-work in metal and the bass is mostly there to add physical heft rather than musical dynamics.

OK, go look for some Jason Newsted or Rob Trujillo soloed tracks then. You could hear the bass on those albums, except for And Justice For All. What do you want from me? I thought Cliff had a great sound when he wasn't being buried (and yes, that was the producer's doing and probably Hetfield as well).

[IPYF]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

OK, go look for some Jason Newsted or Rob Trujillo soloed tracks then. You could hear the bass on those albums, except for And Justice For All. What do you want from me? I thought Cliff had a great sound when he wasn't being buried (and yes, that was the producer's doing and probably Hetfield as well).

I don't think Cliff was that good (*sits back and waits to get face kicked in). He's like Hendrix, he's been put on such a high pedestal that even the terrible things he did have people dribbling on the floor. I wouldn't go near him for reference for a modern metal tone, unless I was actually trying to get an 80s sound. Most metal guitarists will be far more compressed and run with far higher gain than Metallica did back in the day, thus nullifying a wooly bass tone pretty completely. If you want an 80s-90s sound then sure, go for Burton til the cows come home.

Maybe we need to define what kind of metal band the OP is in if he ever comes back for a revisit. No real point assuming he wants a thrash tone when he hasn't defined that this is what he needs.

[JimmyM]

Good bass sound is good bass sound, and all these subgenres mean nothing. Sometimes it's fuzzier, sometimes it's cleaner, sometimes it's scooped and sometimes it's mid-forward, but the rules of audio apply across the board for all music...find your frequency slotting that works best and use it.

[Clef_de_fa]

I think there is only two way to be heard in metal :

1-Play something different from the guitar

2-I don't know why but fretless bass cut through very easily

[Midfour]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

I think there is only two way to be heard in metal :

1-Play something different from the guitar

2-I don't know why but fretless bass cut through very easily

I don't think it's so much that fretless cuts through better, it's just that metal bassists who play fretless tend to be virtuosos (Malone, DiGiorgio, et al) and thus tend to get mixed higher out of respect.

[Midfour]

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

The OP is looking for how to be heard though.

That's what my "loads of mids" advice earlier was for. But I'd also like to acknowledge that in certain scenarios being heard is a lost cause.

[Hobobob]

Focus more on the low mids, so you slip in above the kick and below the guitars. Also, if your guitarists' bass knobs are anywhere above 12 o'clock, they're contributing to the problem. My favorite amp for cutting through a mix is my little Genz Shuttle 12 combo. It produces barely any true bass, but has a nice little bump in the low mids that adds thump to my attack and places me in just the right spot to be heard. I use it with a loud metal band and I've never needed any more for rehearsals. For shows, I use a 2x12 cab to fill the room better, but the Shuttle head stays.