Tone is in the fingers

[walknbluez]

Had a gig on Friday where we were twin billing with some friends of ours. After their set, I set up my amp, plugged everything in and it just went dead (only on a gig, I tell ya!). So I'm forced to play through his rig which I don't like to do because I don't know how to dial in the settings on his. It was a Mesa 400 into an Ampeg SVT-410he. I didn't change the settings too much from the prior bassist but they have two keyboards and we are a rock trio and I like my tone a little different so I turned up the bass EQ and mid EQ by about 1 notch. Anyway, it was farting some here and there during our set. Afterward I asked friends in the audience if they had heard that and they said no, it sounded fine (it was an outdoor gig by the way).

After the gig during takedown, the other bass player asked me how I liked the rig and I told him it was farting out a bit and he said "yeah I think maybe you were torquing the strings or something. But the other night it happened too so maybe there's a bad tube or something"

Has anyone heard of "torquing the strings" before? Could my plucking actually be the cause of farting out?

My habit is to pluck right in between the two pickups on my Fender Jazz. The tone mellows out a bit when I move toward the neck of course. But other than things like how hard you dig in and where you pluck, what else is there "in the fingers"?

[Steve!]

I think this happened to me before. Were you playing with old strings?

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by walknbluez

Had a gig on Friday where we were twin billing with some friends of ours. After their set, I set up my amp, plugged everything in and it just went dead (only on a gig, I tell ya!). So I'm forced to play through his rig which I don't like to do because I don't know how to dial in the settings on his. It was a Mesa 400 into an Ampeg SVT-410he. I didn't change the settings too much from the prior bassist but they have two keyboards and we are a rock trio and I like my tone a little different so I turned up the bass EQ and mid EQ by about 1 notch. Anyway, it was farting some here and there during our set. Afterward I asked friends in the audience if they had heard that and they said no, it sounded fine (it was an outdoor gig by the way).

After the gig during takedown, the other bass player asked me how I liked the rig and I told him it was farting out a bit and he said "yeah I think maybe you were torquing the strings or something. But the other night it happened too so maybe there's a bad tube or something"

Has anyone heard of "torquing the strings" before? Could my plucking actually be the cause of farting out?

My habit is to pluck right in between the two pickups on my Fender Jazz. The tone mellows out a bit when I move toward the neck of course. But other than things like how hard you dig in and where you pluck, what else is there "in the fingers"?

Possibly he meant that you are playing too aggressively, and causing the notes to "splat". If you're amp was out of headroom or if the speakers where at max capacity, then those splats could cause some farting. Or you could have had the input gain to high on the head, and the transients from your aggressive attack are causing some input clipping on the preamp.

Just guessing.

[walknbluez]

Originally Posted by Steve!

I think this happened to me before. Were you playing with old strings?

They're not that old, at least I don't think....flats usually last a long time and they've been on there for about a year, playing once a week.

[walknbluez]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Possibly he meant that you are playing too aggressively, and causing the notes to "splat". If you're amp was out of headroom or if the speakers where at max capacity, then those splats could cause some farting. Or you could have had the input gain to high on the head, and the transients from your aggressive attack are causing some input clipping on the preamp.

Just guessing.

I just thought that maybe the term "torquing" was a common term. I had never heard it before.

[Chowowbus]

I have this same thing happen to me with my own rig, a 300 w GK backline with the BLX 410. I can get it to do it even with new strings. Its usually just too much oomph for it so I back off either the bass, boost or low mid.
I am going to be testing new cabs soon because of it.
maybe I am just asking too much of it.
I would love to play with less volume...but you know how that goes!

[cheamo]

I think a Mesa 400 into an SVT 410HE might be seriously underpowered. The cab takes 500 watts with an impedance of 8 ohms. The Mesa does 500 watts @ 2 ohms and as far as I can tell 300 @ 4 and obviously less at 8. Being underpowered like that + all tube amp certainly seems to add up to some distortion to me

[KPAX]

Splat - I like that.
You can get kind of a farting out sound just by doing that - just hitting the strings so hard that they can't vibrate freely for the amount of deflection at your plucking hand. They hit the frets and in essence clip. It's somewhat similar to an electronic signal running out of headroom and clipping.

Originally Posted by Eublet

Possibly he meant that you are playing too aggressively, and causing the notes to "splat". If you're amp was out of headroom or if the speakers where at max capacity, then those splats could cause some farting. Or you could have had the input gain to high on the head, and the transients from your aggressive attack are causing some input clipping on the preamp.

Just guessing.

[walknbluez]

Originally Posted by KPAX

Splat - I like that.
You can get kind of a farting out sound just by doing that - just hitting the strings so hard that they can't vibrate freely for the amount of deflection at your plucking hand. They hit the frets and in essence clip. It's somewhat similar to an electronic signal running out of headroom and clipping.

The thing is that I'm not that aggressive. I've seen plenty of other bassists that are much more aggressive. Even so, I wouldn't describe an aggressive attack as "torquing". When I hear "torquing" that sound more like a rotation of some sort.

[Billminpa]

Hey Chowowbus I have the same set up and it happened to me this weekend at an outdoor gig. Not on all notes but every once in a while that splat would show up. I am thinking the same as you and looking to change out the BLX 410. Alternatively I think adding a 1x15would help. Goign to be doing some shopping soon

[nysbob]

I don't think it's an issue of playing hard or soft attack as much as consistency. I play very heavy handed - so I set my bass and amp to not frazz out no matter how hard I hit it. Your right hand technique is as individual as you are, but learning how to control dynamics and produce the sound you desire is something that develops over time.

Whenever I'm confronted with a rig I'm unfamiliar with, I check out what it's limitations are quickly so as not to exceed them.

[Eublet]

There is some possiblity of pushing the strings down toward the fretboard when plucking them, which causes them to snap a bit more and create more of a "clackety" sound. This is in contrast to pulling the strings at a parallel plane to the fretboard so that they don't snap back into the frets.

As for my "splat" comment, I can't take credit for that myself. Todd Johnson told me that once. He said that if you consider how hard you can pluck the string of a bass guitar, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being hardly audible, and 10 being a splat, most guys are an 8 or a 9, meaning they have no headroom left in their attack for any dynamics. Anytime they go for some lick, it's nothing but splats. He advised to shoot for something in the middle, so that you have room for more or less attack without running out of room in either direction.

Not sure if it applies here cause it's really hard to know what could be going on without seeing it firsthand.

[KPAX]

Really?
I think most players play much lighter than near-splat.
Geddy and Flea splat like crazy. I think it sounds awesome.

Originally Posted by Eublet

There is some possiblity of pushing the strings down toward the fretboard when plucking them, which causes them to snap a bit more and create more of a "clackety" sound. This is in contrast to pulling the strings at a parallel plane to the fretboard so that they don't snap back into the frets.

As for my "splat" comment, I can't take credit for that myself. Todd Johnson told me that once. He said that if you consider how hard you can pluck the string of a bass guitar, on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being hardly audible, and 10 being a splat, most guys are an 8 or a 9, meaning they have no headroom left in their attack for any dynamics. Anytime they go for some lick, it's nothing but splats. He advised to shoot for something in the middle, so that you have room for more or less attack without running out of room in either direction.

Not sure if it applies here cause it's really hard to know what could be going on without seeing it firsthand.

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by walknbluez

Had a gig on Friday where we were twin billing with some friends of ours. After their set, I set up my amp, plugged everything in and it just went dead (only on a gig, I tell ya!). So I'm forced to play through his rig which I don't like to do because I don't know how to dial in the settings on his. It was a Mesa 400 into an Ampeg SVT-410he. I didn't change the settings too much from the prior bassist but they have two keyboards and we are a rock trio and I like my tone a little different so I turned up the bass EQ and mid EQ by about 1 notch. Anyway, it was farting some here and there during our set. Afterward I asked friends in the audience if they had heard that and they said no, it sounded fine (it was an outdoor gig by the way).

After the gig during takedown, the other bass player asked me how I liked the rig and I told him it was farting out a bit and he said "yeah I think maybe you were torquing the strings or something. But the other night it happened too so maybe there's a bad tube or something"

Has anyone heard of "torquing the strings" before? Could my plucking actually be the cause of farting out?

My habit is to pluck right in between the two pickups on my Fender Jazz. The tone mellows out a bit when I move toward the neck of course. But other than things like how hard you dig in and where you pluck, what else is there "in the fingers"?

Depending on which of my basses I play, the ones with hotter pickups will clip the amp and "fart" when playing aggressively if I forget to adjust (lower) the gain.

I've been lucky and my equipment has been reliable so it rarely happens but damn I hate using "foreign" equipment.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by KPAX

Really?
I think most players play much lighter than near-splat.
Geddy and Flea splat like crazy. I think it sounds awesome.

They use it on certain songs, but they also play softer on many songs. The point is to be able to have more than just an on-off switch.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by cheamo

I think a Mesa 400 into an SVT 410HE might be seriously underpowered. The cab takes 500 watts with an impedance of 8 ohms. The Mesa does 500 watts @ 2 ohms and as far as I can tell 300 @ 4 and obviously less at 8. Being underpowered like that + all tube amp certainly seems to add up to some distortion to me

Wow, sorry, but no, that's all way off. The Mesa 400 is a tube amp, and while I forget what the wattage is (all I know is it's certainly not 500w), tube amps don't work like solid state amps where the wattage goes down as the impedance gets higher. Also, forget about underpowering...it's a load of silliness. The only thing that causes speakers to blow is overpowering them, not underpowering them. And forget about cab power handling ratings as well. They're almost always inaccurate by a longshot.

[hbarcat]

It could be as simple as the fact that your bass has a higher output than his bass and it farts out his cab with the louder volume.