Tremelo Picking (with a pick) Method (opinions WANTED)

[Nyarlathotep]

Ok, so after perusing the Carol Kaye picking thread, and watching some of Jauqo III-X's picking on YouTube, I sorta developed the style that I try to demo in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPRYdh69X0s

I had absolutly no pain, which is good cus usually I do when I pick. As you can see at the end I have the bass jacked up to "fusion" level I defiantly focus on picking "from the elbow" by twisting my forearm. The only thing I have trouble with is loosening up my hand a little and having faith in the fact that a lot of the pick is held between the fingers and prolly wont slip out.... Another advantange to keeping it loose is that string skipping gets easier and smoother

Like I said, no pain and I feel like I have more control. Cus I use strap locks I've actually set one of my straps to long for fingerplucking (keeps my arm straight and my wrist in-line and unbent), and one short for when I feel like getting all TR00 KVLT tremelo style

Like the thread title says, OPINIONS WANTED, so bring 'em on

[Nyarlathotep]

Update: I found this video, which I missed the last time (it was a while ago that I searched for this kindof thing): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV10D9Mp7_8

Its Jauqo III-X, and obviously he does some trem on the higher strings, and right on the edge of the fretboard. I'd love to be able to pick in that position on the low strings, but IME physics gets in the way....

Inspiring tho

[JAUQO III-X]

Hey Daniel thanks for the shout out.

I checked out your video and what you're working on is kool and it definitely has potential.

From your video it looks like you may be using a heavy pick, if so try a thinner pick.A thinner pick wil make it a little easier for you.

Here is a vid just to show you how I utilize my picking technique in an actual band context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9SFXjph5KY

[Nyarlathotep]

Thanks for the link I forget what size the pick is, but its defiantly not heavy

[Nyarlathotep]

I use .50mm Tortex triangles:

http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?p...products/picks

[MEKer]

??

[JAUQO III-X]

You're welcome and I use Dunlop .38mm nylon picks.

[Nyarlathotep]

I'll have to try and find some. I don't remember seeing anything smaller than .5 the last time I was getting picks, but I guess there is

[rustinstrings]

Nice demo.
I've been pursuing fast picking myself, but currently don't wanna give up on heavy picks, playing farther from the bridge, and holding the pick between thumb and index.
My questions:
1. Don't you feel any tension picking at that location? Is that's what the soft pick is mitigating? (Carol Kaye experts would indicate potential problem here).
2. Likewise, in order to get the faster tremolo going - do you feel a need to tighten up your muscles in any way? In other words, is the picking speed controllable and can be practiced with metronome at various speeds, or once you adjusted your hand and start tremolo, you just pick "fastest"?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by rustinstrings

Nice demo.
I've been pursuing fast picking myself, but currently don't wanna give up on heavy picks, playing farther from the bridge, and holding the pick between thumb and index.

you got some good questions here, and I'll do my best to answer them As for the above, I think your chasing a unicorn. Just my opinion, and I'll try to explain. 1st off, Ill tackle the "holding between thumb/index": When you do so (or at least when I do so) I find my thumb tends to bend back and start to get sore. I wish I'd bookmarked a vid I stumbled upon once that showed why this is bad. It boils down to awkward pressure on your thumb. I also find that when picking really fast, my thumb gets tired having to hold that position. By holding it between my index and middle fingers its more secure simply because your fingers can't bend straight out to the side like your thumb can, and gets pressured to do.

Playing farther from the bridge.... The one thing I find with tremelo picking is that the farther the string moves (side to side) at the point your picking, the more I miss the string. That's simply cus the string moves more the farther away from the bridge you go. I also find that sometimes it binds, but thats more cus the pick is to thick to get out of the way (LOL ). Which is why thicker picks won't work IMO/E. You have to force them thru a lot of times.

I hope that explains a little. Now on to your 2 questions:

Originally Posted by rustinstrings

My questions:
1. Don't you feel any tension picking at that location? Is that's what the soft pick is mitigating? (Carol Kaye experts would indicate potential problem here).

The answers are: "no", and "exactly". As for the Carol Kaye experts, I must disagree with them. IME thinner picks cause less pain as they "give" more and don't bind up on the string.

One thing I would like to emphasize: This method is a combo of the way Jauqo holds the pick, the motion of the Carol Kaye method, my own experience with string tension at different points and the way pick thicknesses work.

Originally Posted by rustinstrings

2. Likewise, in order to get the faster tremolo going - do you feel a need to tighten up your muscles in any way? In other words, is the picking speed controllable and can be practiced with metronome at various speeds, or once you adjusted your hand and start tremolo, you just pick "fastest"?

This was a very good set of questions IMHO. Since this method involved picking from the elbow (by rotating your entire forearm) I must say the best and most controlled sound I get is by keeping things loose. Because of the way your fingers CAN'T bend the pick will stay in place. By keeping it loose (but not wet noodley) you should find that you have more control over how far your pick sweep is. As for adjusting speed, I don't see how it would be a problem. It isn't one I've had yet, and I'm sure if you practiced a few different speeds with a 'nome it wouldn't become one.

I hope this is all helpful in some way

[Atomicant]

i dont get it... what exactly are you trying to achieve?

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by Atomicant

i dont get it... what exactly are you trying to achieve?

A way to safely, and easily, tremelo pick, with a pick, on bass.

[JimmyM]

As one of those "Carol Kaye" people, I woud disagree with the use of a thin pick, but I could be talked into making an exception for tremelo picking. The idea behind the heavy pick is to make it do the work of sounding out the note. But when you're tremelo picking, your hand is going to do the lion's share of the work anyway. Still, I see jazz guitarists doing a lot of very fast down/up picking with very thick picks, so it can be done. I'd say if you're not getting pain, you're OK with thin picks. Doesn't seem to work for me, though.

Who knows? I'm certainly in no position to question Jauqo. I know a lot of popular bassists who IMHO have questionable techniques, and when I'm better than they are I'll tell them about it

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Who knows? I'm certainly in no position to question Jauqo

It's not about questioning me Jimmy,it's just that a very thin pick is what works best for me.

Now you wouldn't want me to start using a heavy pick and possibly injure myself, would you?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

It's not about questioning me Jimmy,it's just that a very thin pick is what works best for me.

Now you wouldn't want me to start using a heavy pick and possibly injure myself, would you?

LOL! Of course I wouldn't, my friend! Somehow, though, I think you could take it. I'm much more worried about a pencil neck geek like myself.

[Atomicant]

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

A way to safely, and easily, tremelo pick, with a pick, on bass.

I can safely and easily tremolo pick, on bass, with a 1.38 Dunlop Jazz III pick without having to play like that.

And just a thought on the thin picks thing: Most 'shred' guitarists use at least a 1mm thick pick, so i dont know where this thin pick idea came from.

i really dont see how you can be hurting yourself by playing 'normally' with a pick, unless you've got some kind of medical condition, in which case i dont think you should be playing at all.

[lemur821]

Why do you use Jauqo's grip? Planning on doing some slapping while you pick?

[JimmyM]

That's what I thought about playing "normally" until I started to get tremendous pains in my hand. Took a long time to happen but it happened.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally Posted by lemur821

Why do you use Jauqo's grip? Planning on doing some slapping while you pick?

I use it to take the pressure of holding the pick off my thumb and wrist. As for slapping..... it HAS crossed my mind

Right now Im more just noodling around with this than actually using it seriously. Im definatly not trying to copy Jauqo's sound, just his technique. I've noticed he tends to stick to the higher strings too. Its all about tremming the low B (tuned down to A)

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by DanielTulip

I use it to take the pressure of holding the pick off my thumb and wrist. As for slapping..... it HAS crossed my mind

Right now Im more just noodling around with this than actually using it seriously. Im definatly not trying to copy Jauqo's sound, just his technique. I've noticed he tends to stick to the higher strings too. Its all about tremming the low B (tuned down to A)

I think you should explore all possible creative aspects from the basics of what you are doing. You never know what you will get out of it if you don't explore.

And I pretty much play on all the string,it's just that in the clips that are available I am mostly playing on the high strings.