Trouble with Raking

[Stickk]

I have a real hard time raking, with both my fingers and a pick. Does anyone have any excercises that could help with my problem?

[JimmyM]

Don't rake...just use strict alternation. Works better anyway.

[Tommy el Gato]

Some will say "If Jaco did it, then it works", but it's one of those things where if you feel like it's slowing you down, don't do it.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Don't rake...just use strict alternation. Works better anyway.

That doesn't sound right coming from someone who "Keeps hammering the Carol Kaye pick method".

Try this exercise:

Finger a C on the G-string and a Ab on the D-string. Using your first finger on your plucking hand play C-Ab, then with your second finger play C-Ab. Turn on your metronome to click at 80 bpm and play quarternotes. Once those are locking in play those same two alternating notes as quarternote triplets. Then play 8th notes, 8th note triples and then 16th notes. Practice it slowly and accurately. You will get better by practicing slowly.

Next, finger a C on the G-string, Ab on the D-string and Eb on the A-string and now rake across all three strings as quarternotes, quarter triplets, etc.

The trick to inventing your own exercise is to look for what you are having trouble playing and then break it down into smaller chunks and work those out. But do it slowly.

[fretlessman71]

You'd be wise to ask yourself why you feel you need to rake first.

1) Are you having success alternating fingers to start with?

2) Is there a particular song/phrase/riff you'd like to play that you know for sure requires the technique?

I've always secretly been jealous of those who learned without raking - I can't undo the technique for me at this point, and I know I'd have an easier time playing ascending phrases if I could do it.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

That doesn't sound right coming from someone who "Keeps hammering the Carol Kaye pick method".

Why? Carol Kaye's pick method is also based on strict alternation.

[bassrique]

I would say to learn strict alternate plucking first, and then mess around with other techniques. In other words, don't let raking be a shortcut.

And how are you going to rake going the other way?

Just my 2 cents.

[Bass Troll]

For me raking comes naturally, and in some ways I wish it didn't, it really inhibits my 3 finger technique.
But for some stuff it's pretty much necessary, like the arpeggios from Paganini's 24th caprice, or some off your more technical, proggy stuff.

[BradyEB]

I confess I'm a raker. It's what felt comfortable when I first begun playing and I never looked back. I'm only starting to notice how messy of a technique it is when you're constantly using it.
Looks like I'm going to be spending some time with Adam Nitti and the Mastering Right and Left Hand Technique class as well as many hours in the woodshed :P

[ras1983]

It works for some and not for others. I personally like to rake, its natural and I don't have to think about it - and up to this point it hasn't affected my playing ability.

Just do what's natural, if that means you don't rake thats fine; if it means you rake that's also fine.

[Erick Lam]

Originally Posted by BradyEB

I'm only starting to notice how messy of a technique it is when you're constantly using it.

It's only messy if you don't practice it. It comes "narurally" at first and people don't put much thought into it and wake up later with a bunch of bad habits. Alternating doesn't come naturally and HAS to be practiced, but put as much work into raking and you do alternating and it opens up many more possibilities.

[Chickencha]

I raked for the first year I played bass and never thought about it until I saw a topic here a while back on strict alternating vs. raking. The arguments for strict alternating seemed quite a bit better than the arguments for raking, so I decided I'd try to change my ways.

It really wasn't that hard to change. It probably took me about two weeks before I was alternating automatically without thinking about it. It now feels very natural and probably has marginally improved my playing.

I'm sure there are some who've been raking a lot longer than I did, but I think anyone who says it's too hard to change probably hasn't given it a fair shot.

[alexit]

I agree with going for strict alternation for quite a while. Almost every time I have trouble playing something fast enough, the cause is cheating on my alternation - generally matching index fingers on fretting and plucking hands or middle finger plucking to thumb.

The problem with raking is that (generally) you can only rake down toward yourself, so cheating on your alternation can speed you up going down toward yourself but you won't be able to climb back up as fast, making for inconsistency.

I think the ideal is to play any song with any alternation - including doubling up fingers. That gives you the most options tonally, but it's sort of a philosophy more than a truly attainable goal - just like 'complete' hand and foot independence for drummers.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Don't rake...just use strict alternation. Works better anyway.

Again, tell that to Gary Willis. Unless you feel there is somebody who has a better mastery of right hand technique than he does.

Want proof he rakes? Go to www.bassplayer.tv, go to events, go to BP live Bass Day 07, go to Gary Willis and click video 5. He outlines his right hand technique. It's part of his whole science to right hand technique that quite frankly is unparalleled.

Granted, I do most of my linear stuff with SA and free strokes. But raking is an important effect that is a nice complement to the rest stroke.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Again, tell that to Gary Willis. Unless you feel there is somebody who has a better mastery of right hand technique than he does.

Want proof he rakes? Go to www.bassplayer.tv, go to events, go to BP live Bass Day 07, go to Gary Willis and click video 5. He outlines his right hand technique. It's part of his whole science to right hand technique that quite frankly is unparalleled.

Granted, I do most of my linear stuff with SA and free strokes. But raking is an important effect that is a nice complement to the rest stroke.

Well I'm not going to get into the whole SA vs. raking thing again as I got worn out on the last 5 or 6 raking discussions. You want to rake? Fine by me. SA made me a lot better, faster, and a whole lot cleaner, that's all I can say. BTW, Gary WIllis is a great player, but I'm not a fan

[PaulMacCnj]

Forgive me for saying this, but who cares how something is played? If it sounds good, it is good. I've seen plenty of professional bassists fretting or plucking with their thumbs, raking, etc., etc.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by PaulMacCnj

Forgive me for saying this, but who cares how something is played? If it sounds good, it is good. I've seen plenty of professional bassists fretting or plucking with their thumbs, raking, etc., etc.

Well, I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to play Jamerson lines all night, raking is fine. But if you want to play very fast across the strings both up and down, I suggest SA.

[PaulMacCnj]

Gotcha, understood.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Well, I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to play Jamerson lines all night, raking is fine. But if you want to play very fast across the strings both up and down, I suggest SA.

[jellymax]

raking can be a crutch, which is a constant reminder of the importance of
staying in shape/practice. however raking must be practiced regularly as well
or may sound sloppy. IMO that it should be Part of your vocabulary. but staying in shape
means lotsa SA as well.

[BrennP90]

Could someone explain strict alternation? I read these forums often and this is the first I've seen the term used.