Upsidedown strings?

[abarson]

I'm not sure that this is the right forum, and I'd be happy to have it redirected if needed.

I've been curious about players that string their basses with the lowest frequency string at the "bottom" of the neck, meaning closest to the floor. The first player of this style who comes to mind is Jimmy Haslip of the Yellowjackets, but I've seen pictures of other basses set up this way lately.

Anyway, I found a left handed bass at a local store and flipped it over, since I'm right handed. This put the low E at the bottom of the neck. It took a bit of time to wrap my mind around the different playing position, but it seemed more natural for my fingering.

Does anyone know why players invert their string order? Does anyone here play like this and can elaborate more on the why and how?

[onlyclave]

It's because they are left handed but only had a right handed bass available to them. They flipped it over and just learned to play with the strings in the reverse order.

I don't think there is a reason to do this other than out of necessity. It won't make you a better player.

[jsingles]

it does make a difference IMO

perhaps it is easier to let the low notes ring out whilst playing intricate lines on the higher strings

Search youtube for Jeff Schmidt

[Darkstrike]

Originally Posted by jsingles

Search youtube for Jeff Schmidt

+1, also, it most definatly isnt always nececity, I've sen righty players play like this before too.

[MarkTAW]

Jimi Hendrix played a right handed guitar in the lefty position, reversing the strings this way. I suspect it does change the playing in the way jsingles points out. Also moving up an octave (+2 strings, +2 frets) becomes an exercise in awkward hand positions as your index finger becomes placed below your pinky.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Jimi Hendrix played a right handed guitar in the lefty position, reversing the strings this way. I suspect it does change the playing in the way jsingles points out. Also moving up an octave (+2 strings, +2 frets) becomes an exercise in awkward hand positions as your index finger becomes placed below your pinky.

Jimi was ambidextrous and could play either way, but when he was playing left handed he restrung the guitar so that the low strings would be on the top. The difference there though, is the bridge pickup on a strat is angled and by stringing it backwards he changes the tonality of guitar because now the low E is being picked up closer to the bridge and the high E is being picked up farther away resulting in different harmonic content. His whammy bar and volume/tone controls were also directly under his picking hand too.

While Jeff Schmidt and Jimmy Haslip look cool playing everything upside down (just like the old drummer from the Arsenio Hall Show who would play his ride cymbal with his left hand) they are exceptions to the rule. I believe Keith Horne plays the same way, but while those guys can do stuff with their strange stringing that others can't, they are also excluded from other popular techniques like traditional slapping.

[jeff schmidt]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

but while those guys can do stuff with their strange stringing that others can't, they are also excluded from other popular techniques like traditional slapping.

true. and the world is thankful.

Keith Horne does play with the same string orientation as I do. Although he plays "The Chicken" style bass way better than me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TezKaPJrRhU

on Jimi.

He being a God notwithstanding - I did a search and found no evidence he was:

A.) Ambidextrous

B.) Played with strings upside down.

All the pics I've ever seen of him were heavy string on top - light strings on bottom. He obviously could slap if he wanted to.

Thankfully he chose not to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix

I personally find Jimi's ground-breaking work with distortion, feedback and experimental studio techniques the most inspiring.

Oh yeah -his work with lighter-fluid & LSD too.

[onlyclave]

Ah, one of the guys who was cited in this thread. So Jeff, did you choose to learn to play your bass "upside down" out of necessity or just because you wanted to be different? I saw one of your Youtube bass solo videos with the strummed high strings and the melody and groove happening on the lower strings which is because of your chosen articulation is best achieved with that string pattern and it sounds really cool. If you're just playing a groove, though, it doesn't really make a difference which direction your strings are going, right?

[SwamiRob]

I always find the concept of playing guitar with upside down stringing kinda interesting, cos your gonna have a different focus and cos of the natural boundaries of what you can do with your fingers, you gonna use chords that a normal guitarist wouldn't play so often.

So maybe that kinda thing might apply to bass, and how it might effect your technique when it comes to how you play scales and use of high and low notes etc etc. I think it think it could be kinda interesting depending on the player.

[jeff schmidt]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Ah, one of the guys who was cited in this thread. So Jeff, did you choose to learn to play your bass "upside down" out of necessity or just because you wanted to be different? I saw one of your Youtube bass solo videos with the strummed high strings and the melody and groove happening on the lower strings which is because of your chosen articulation is best achieved with that string pattern and it sounds really cool. If you're just playing a groove, though, it doesn't really make a difference which direction your strings are going, right?

I guess you can say I "chose" it.

I had to play bass to join my friends in their band. There was only a righty bass available. I picked it up and played it lefty.

Didn't think about until some kids start making fun of me for playing "upside down & backwards". But when I could play "Smoke on the water" right off the bat they stopped laughing. ahhh the good ole days.

I agree with you, that for normal "groove" playing there really isn't much difference which way the strings are arranged. Haslip and Horne prove that beyond any question.

Either way - there are always trade offs.

Lots of the techniques formalized by others over the years are extra difficult unless I modify my approach. Doing that ultimately makes it more unique to me.

But if you just listen and not SEE - I don't think anyone would say - that guy is playing upside down!

[Just J]

Would stringing a trad bass "upsidedown" help with tension? Putting the E string on the G machine of a Fender for example...

And with regards to not being able to slap "upside down", I would have to say that's not true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrwdB6DCHfM

[Mr_Krinkle]

I was thinking about this a while ago. It actually kind of makes sense to string your bass 'upside down' like that, because you would be able to apply the most pressure (because your fingers would be arched more) to the string that requires the most pressure. I think I've got to restring one of my basses like this now, just to see what it's like...

[stoo]

Originally Posted by jeff schmidt

on Jimi.

He being a God notwithstanding - I did a search and found no evidence he was:

A.) Ambidextrous

B.) Played with strings upside down.

All the pics I've ever seen of him were heavy string on top - light strings on bottom.

I read a few jimi books years ago, and IIRC in the eddie kramer one it was saying when he was a child he preferred to play leftie, but his dad was adamant that he should play right handed. So whenever his dad came into the room, he'd flip the guitar over while playing and start playing right handed without dropping a note.

I also think there was mention of his dad restringing the guitar as a conventional righty, and jimi would restring it back as a lefty when next out of sight and so it'd go back and forth. That might have just been something weird my brain made up though... will try and dig out the book and check at some point.

[Nick Kay]

Originally Posted by Mr_Krinkle

I was thinking about this a while ago. It actually kind of makes sense to string your bass 'upside down' like that, because you would be able to apply the most pressure (because your fingers would be arched more) to the string that requires the most pressure. I think I've got to restring one of my basses like this now, just to see what it's like...

Your higher strings actually have more tension on them than your low strings. As a general guideline, the most tension is on the D, followed by the G, then the A, then the E. Depends on your gauge, scale length, string composition, etc., of course, but in a standard perfect 4ths tuning with string gauges progressing by roughly .020" per string, you're going to have more tension up top than on the bottom.

[Ricky Daion]

I'm one of those guys who play a right handed bass lefty without restringing it. I don't slap so it's never been a problem for me. If you're self taught it doesn't matter which way you learn imo. In fact it made more sense to me in a technical way because the "low" string was physically lower on the neck. As well my hands aren't the biggest and it's always been more of a stretch to reach the top strings.

It's fun to go into a music store and ask if they have a lefty in a certain model. When they say no I'll just ask to try the righty, flip it over and proceed to play some scales and intricate passages. The look on thier faces is classic.

I've been playing pro for thirty years this way and the only people who notice are usually guitards and other bass players.

[Dogos]

Well, maybe no one else has seen this, but whenever I think of upside-down slap, Stan Sargeant's Technique always came to mind. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SLyV5JLvxM0 From about 1:35, it sounds like a percussive technique at least.

[amimbari]

OH YA!!! lets hear it for the upside downers, yes I also play that way. I wont tie up a paragraph full of technique, how i learned that way etc etc..

it works, it always did, and IF you weren't looking at me , you'd never know the difference regardless of how I play, pick/finger/slap. I do have a bass strung correctly for lefty's, and have videos of me playing it to show people I can play both ways. I feel more comfortable with the strings on upside down, and will go to my grave categorized as " the dude who plays bass upside down".

my POINT IS: no tabs or teachers for those who brave the upside down world, but if your comfortable playing that way then why try to change?

Playing by ear "sometimes" takes a a little longer, but it is FAR BETTER than following TABS that some moron wrote wrong.

LISTEN and LEARN , "cause if it don't sound right, it ain't"..

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT PART:
WHEN YOU GO TO SELL IT, THERE'S MORE OF A MARKET..LOL

[jsingles]

interesting stuff here!

It's true that i suppose if you listen instead of watch, you wouldn't be able to tell, but the reason i love your stuff jeff is not because of your technique, i just think its beautiful music on the bass. I am really not into guys who just show off their technique but do nothing musical with it. I need to get myself one of your CD's.

[wazzel]

The guy who toured wih Trisha Yearwood in the late 90 early 2000's played strung upside down. I can not remember his name.