walking basslines; one finger or two?

jazzcrime · #1 07-06-2007, 04:04 AM

okay,
opening another can of worms here.
not sure how many of you guys play jazz but those of you who do - when you are walking do you use one finger or two on your plucking hand?
comes about after having had people comment that i couldn't possibly get a smooth walking sound out of using one finger and i had to use two, however to my ears and my teachers ears the one finger thing worked better. i've also heard people claim that you swing harder one way or the other.
what're all your views (in relation to walking basslines only)?

ps. i am one finger biased - i figure you can't get a smoother sound than the exact same finger playing at the exact same time and intensity.

Koki · #2 07-06-2007, 04:23 AM

Deacon_Blues · #3 07-06-2007, 04:30 AM

Whatever works for you...

I don't play much jazz, but I like the sound when using only one finger more than when using two. For faster lines though, I think it is easier to play if you're using two fingers. With one finger, it's easier to get the same attack in all notes and thus it might sound more consistent than the two-finger method.

Just my 2 cents...

The BurgerMeister · #4 07-06-2007, 04:37 AM

i don't play much jazz anymore, but when i did i'd use one finger for slower stuff and two for faster stuff. i'd also throw in the second finger on the slower lines if i was doing some cool ghost-note and quick-lick stuff.

AdlerAugen · #5 07-06-2007, 04:55 AM

2....and if you can't stay consistent with 2 fingers or 3 then you need to practice more. I always use 2 and 3 when I can.

jazzcrime · #6 07-06-2007, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlerAugen

2....and if you can't stay consistent with 2 fingers or 3 then you need to practice more. I always use 2 and 3 when I can.

i don't think you can reach a level of consistancy with two fingers that you could with one - but i don't doubt you could achieve it with two or even three. i'm saying this based on the fact that our fingers are actually different shapes, thicknesses and hardnesses and this might affect your tone in different ways. there've been amazing bass players who've used one finger (like ray brown) or even three fingers (niels pedersen).

jazzcrime · #7 07-06-2007, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetpackbassist

i'd also throw in the second finger on the slower lines if i was doing some cool ghost-note and quick-lick stuff.

i often do this as well for kicks and small fills.

trasser · #8 07-06-2007, 05:49 AM

I see your point...using one finger would probably give the most "smooth" tone out, 'cause each note is shaped with the same finger. But I believe that you can play a smooth line with 2 (or 3) fingers as well. Do what is most comfortable for you - I always advise my students to use 2 fingers though.

JimK · #9 07-06-2007, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetpackbassist

i don't play much jazz anymore, but when i did i'd use one finger for slower stuff and two for faster stuff. i'd also throw in the second finger on the slower lines if i was doing some cool ghost-note and quick-lick stuff.

Agree 100%.

jazzcrime · #10 07-06-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trasser

I see your point...using one finger would probably give the most "smooth" tone out, 'cause each note is shaped with the same finger. But I believe that you can play a smooth line with 2 (or 3) fingers as well. Do what is most comfortable for you - I always advise my students to use 2 fingers though.

i can see why teaching your students to use two fingers would be a good thing, learning to be proficient in two finger alternating is important.

AdlerAugen · #11 07-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzcrime

i don't think you can reach a level of consistancy with two fingers that you could with one - but i don't doubt you could achieve it with two or even three. i'm saying this based on the fact that our fingers are actually different shapes, thicknesses and hardnesses and this might affect your tone in different ways. there've been amazing bass players who've used one finger (like ray brown) or even three fingers (niels pedersen).

I realize this, but after piano for 10 years and going into a performance major, I also realize that it is quite possible to make the different fingers play consistently together, and an absolute necessity for professional performance. After all, you don't hunt and peck on a piano with your index finger alone; you use all of them and have to emphasize the weaker ones fairly often seeing as the right pinky is typically the finger used to play the highest and final melodic note in many pieces, not to mention a fair amount in between with rachmaninoff's prelude in C# minor.

It's not about the different shape or size or musculature of your fingers, it's about your control. Control is everything.

Audiophage · #12 07-06-2007, 09:01 PM

I use 2 alternating when walking in 4 on electric, but I never really had consistency problems with my fingers until I started upright. Sometimes I'll combine both of my fingers into 1 for a bigger sounding 2 feel.

jazzcrime · #13 07-06-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiophage

Sometimes I'll combine both of my fingers into 1 for a bigger sounding 2 feel.

i've heard that done before, it sounds amazing!

HaVIC5 · #14 07-06-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzcrime

i've heard that done before, it sounds amazing!

Yeah, doing that, especially over the neck, really gives a full-bodied sound ideal for walking lines. I started doing that when I started playing upright bass, since upright pizz technique usually involves two fingers playing the same note unless its really uptempo.

AveryHorton · #15 07-08-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlerAugen

I realize this, but after piano for 10 years and going into a performance major, I also realize that it is quite possible to make the different fingers play consistently together, and an absolute necessity for professional performance. After all, you don't hunt and peck on a piano with your index finger alone; you use all of them and have to emphasize the weaker ones fairly often seeing as the right pinky is typically the finger used to play the highest and final melodic note in many pieces, not to mention a fair amount in between with rachmaninoff's prelude in C# minor.

It's not about the different shape or size or musculature of your fingers, it's about your control. Control is everything.

It's called PRACTICE!

**Mark Wilson** · #16 07-08-2007, 02:55 PM

I'm at school for Jazz. I use two for walking bass lines, no matter what the speed.
If it's a ballad, I don't know. I use whatever finger comes first I guess. If I'm playing an array of notes, I'll use two fingers, always.

Scot · #17 07-09-2007, 10:59 AM

On upright I use the index but will use both on the extreme uptempo stuff. I will switch over to using just the middle but that's just to give my index a break. Of course, the second finger does get involved in some of the embellishment stuff. On BG I tend to use the middle and then both on the extreme uptempo stuff. I agree with the notion that using the same finger makes for a more even line.

Erick Lam · #18 07-09-2007, 11:11 AM

I use three.

On a side note, I don't get this obsession with being consistent, or even (not just this thread). Sounds boring. A little accent on 2 and 4 with some syncopation here and there makes a much more interesting line.

Scot · #19 07-09-2007, 02:58 PM

If playing consistent and even jazz walking bass lines seems boring to you it sounds to me like you may have picked the wrong instrument (at least for playing jazz). A consistent and even walking bass line is the jazz bassist's bread and butter. My upright teacher (one of the most respected and working jazz bassists in the Bay Area) gave me pages of music custom tailored to work on playing even and consistent walking bass lines across all strings.

IME playing jazz walking bass, the soloist *usually* prefers playing over a good solid and consistent but swinging line with very little or no syncopation or accents. The subtle accents will happen naturally but an exaggerated consistent accent on two and four does not sound right to my ears. To me, the interest comes in making the whole ensemble sound good with good note choices and a consistent legato quarter note approach most of the time with a little rhythmic embellishing here and there (which can easliy be overused and sound too cliche) to lock things in with the rhythm section and make the group swing harder (e.g., not just because I'm bored). It's all in the timing and the only way to develop that timing is to have absorbed yourself in to the music enough so that it's second nature. If you take two cats that don't have the timing down, I think most would rather play with the cat that keeps it simple than with the cat that throws in embellishments to keep from getting bored or to sound slick. As far as playing syncopations on a tune where I'm walking, I try not to do it unless it's part of the composition and/or obvious from what's happening on the bandstand that it's the right thing to do to make the music happen.

Now to get back on topic (sorry)...

I think the key is to listen to a lot of the masters of walking like PC and Ray. Upright is whole different world because it's about trying to pull the sound out of the bass to get a big sound acoustically which, for most, is/was best accomplished with a one finger technique. When you go to a two-finger alternating walking approach on upright you lose that big sound (although I have to do it on the really "up" stuff). When playing walking bass on the upright with the one finger approach, your whole arm, hand and fingers become a unit and the strength comes from muscles in your back. On the BG, I'm really trying to emulate the feel of the lines played on upright by the cats and the one middle finger approach seems to emulate that sound more closely. YMMV

To me, the mystery is why does it feel better to me using the middle on BG even though I use the index on the upright.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that, on upright, the tendency is to use the index but have the middle almost glued to the index to support it. I have heard from other folks on TB that do the same thing and it would be interesting to hear from them.

SirCanealot · #20 07-09-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdlerAugen

I realize this, but after piano for 10 years and going into a performance major, I also realize that it is quite possible to make the different fingers play consistently together, and an absolute necessity for professional performance.

The texture of my skin is different on both my fingers; it's very difficult to get the textures the same on both fingers so that the sound is exactly the same.

And Geddy Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nucdG5TvM0

Thanks :P