Want to play fretless, but I have bad ears :(

[Awkwardturtle!]

So I've been playing for a good 7-8 months and I really want to play a fretless bass. So I got one thinking I'll be able to easily distinguish a good note from a bad note.

As it turns out that It wasn't that easy for me. Now I'm kind of scared because I know a lot of people use their ears a lot when playing fretless. is it even possible to have perfect intonation on a fretless or is it normal to be a little off? And if so how do I work on my intonation?

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Awkwardturtle!

So I've been playing for a good 7-8 months and I really want to play a fretless bass. So I got one thinking I'll be able to easily distinguish a good note from a bad note.

As it turns out that It wasn't that easy for me. Now I'm kind of scared because I know a lot of people use their ears a lot when playing fretless. is it even possible to have perfect intonation on a fretless or is it normal to be a little off? And if so how do I work on my intonation?

Bad ears never stopped me .
What I did when I switched to fretless was to simply start playing my "standards" that I'd already learnt on the fretted on it. For those, you already know the fingering, rhythm etc, so you don't have to fight all that when playing them. You can concentrate completely on intonating them without the frets. Playing along with prerecorded versions of them can help you hear when you're out of tune as well. But even playing them unaccompanied, you'll be surprised at how well you'll be able to detect when you're off.

For formal exercises, I highly recommend the drills in these videos by Steve Bailey (skip to about 2/3 of the way through on the first one):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irBtr...eature=related

I only discovered these just recently after I've been playing FL for some years, but they still have really helped me.

Basically, I'd say just start playing the thing and you'll pick up a lot of what's required to play in tune.

As for how close you'll get, I think of it like a human voice. You're never spot on with the voice, but you can learn to control your intonation so it sounds good. totally relentlessly spot-on tuning isn't always necessarily the goal, but being in _control_ of intonation is, just like with the voice..

LS

[firefighta115]

Practice on your fretted bass and fret with your finger right behind the fret and not in the middle on the dot. It will help with your muscle memory. Also, a lined fretless is a good way to help develop your ear. Hell, even Jaco had lines on his neck. (but it was from pulling the frets out with pliers and putting epoxy in the grooves) Just my $.02.... But mainly, practice, practice,practice.

[miguel2u]

Go watch some preschoolers in the Suzuki violin program. They start out squawking but soon they are making music. No frets nor fret markers. If they can do it, so can you.

Practice!

[ilovenofrets]

Unclejane pretty much said it all. You may also look to the full-length home videos for inspiration. Fretless Bass w/Tony Franklin and Steve Bailey-Fretless Bass are both awesome vid's. Very informative, inspiring, and very entertaining. Hal Leonard publishing also has a few great books on fretless instruction/workouts. Somtimes a little inspiration is all we need, and that will get you practicing more, and you'll have some idea of what you need to practice. Hope this helps. Cheers!!!

[drdunwoody]

Get something with fretlines to be on the safe side as a starter. My first fretless was a Carvin with fretlines. I don't play my fretless enough (lately) to have real good intonation. When I pick it up, I run it through my tuner so I can see just how "off" my notes are. That helps me fine tune where my fingers should be physically with the notes I'm hearing. I find watching the tuner while practicing a real good way to work on intonation.

[BigOldHarry]

You've been playing for a whole 8 months and you're getting impatient with your fretless playing?

Jeez - *be patient*. Really. Music is not *supposed* to be easy, and playing fretless is *hard*. Just keep at it.

[bass12]

The more you practice the better you'll get. I doubt you're completely tone deaf, so don't be overly concerned about intonation at this point. I just started playing fretless again after around nine years and I'm not as sharp as I expected to be (no pun intended)! One thing I have found - good intonation or not - playing the fretless really brings out different ideas and seems to help me expand beyond my usual patterns and tendencies. I definitely play more melodically on a fretless than on a fretted bass. I guarantee you're getting something positive out of playing the fretless that you don't get out of playing a fretted bass. So just have as much fun with it as you can and try not to stress. Man, how many singers have you heard who are always on key? Right - me neither.

[Awkwardturtle!]

Thanks guys!
yes my bass has fretlines but im waiting for my flatwounds to come. so i can play it without damaging the fretboard

[ciudadmarron]

Originally Posted by miguel2u

Go watch some preschoolers in the Suzuki violin program. They start out squawking but soon they are making music. No frets nor fret markers. If they can do it, so can you.

Practice!

Just for reference, those suzuki kids listen to the pieces they learn REPEATEDLY - as in 50+ times a day at every available opportunity - to help develop their ear and intonation. I was one of them and having just defretted one of my basses I can tell you that childhood has made all the difference even though I stopped learning piano by suzuki method 20 years ago.

[puddin tame]

fretlines are bad IMO, you want to use your ears, not your eyes. the lines will be off a little, too.

if you play with proper fretted technique (fingers as close to the fret as possible without being right on top of it) you'll be more or less putting your fingers in the same place anyway, so you can just rely on muscle memory if you've practiced on frets and use your ear for adjustments.

Personally I played fretted for 8 years before I bought my fretless (unlined) and I was able to swap over instantly because I had the muscle memory and the ear (you need to use your ear if you're playing with frets or without, so it all develops the same skill)

[bryan gibson]

It may sound overly obvious, but it's much easier to learn fretless with backing tracks compared to individual solo practice. With the backing tracks (or CD, etc) you've got a point of reference to "hear" your intervals, etc. And it's a helluva lot less boring My first fretless experience was hearing a buddy's band and they called me up to sit in. Dave handed me a fretless Westone along with instructions to "Close your eyes and think happy thoughts."

[korybaugus]

Getting a fretless would be a great way to develop your ear.

[Donny Bassman]

I use a cromadic tuner when im playing my upright. It helps, but im sure its going to be i wile befor im any good with it

[Skitch it!]

Originally Posted by Awkwardturtle!

Thanks guys!
yes my bass has fretlines but im waiting for my flatwounds to come. so i can play it without damaging the fretboard

My 2 cents, don't worry about roundwounds on your fretless, in 25 years of playing rounds on a F/L I've only had to have the board skimmed twice, concentrate on getting your left hand finger pressure as light as you can to cleanly intone a note on the board. I think you made the right choice with lines, especially to begin with, you can change your mind later if you prefer.

Use the open strings as reference if your away from anything fixed pitch to practice against but playing to tracks is a great way of visualising where your fingers need to be placed in relation to the lines to intone properly. Be aware that within the range of the first 0 to 4+ you need to come slightly forward of the line to intonate properly, at the top of the neck (13/14 onwards) you back-off the lines slightly to adjust for the difference, plug into a tuner and check this out. Be aware your pads flatten out leaving a slight gap/curve beneath so sometimes it seems your playing ever so slightly over the line but this is allowing for that curve.

Practising octaves is a good exercise, all over the board, slowly, to bring them in tune, it also gives you a good indicator of the scale of the neck for intonation in different locations.

Intonation is the hardest thing to crack on fretless, it won't come overnight so take your time and be concious of it at first. If I leave the F/L alone for a month, it shows, it takes some practise to bring the intonation back in because of playing a fretted, not quite the same locations for tuning on a fretless, most of all take your time with it, it'll come ; )

[colcifer]

Practice, practice, and more practice. A month or so in, you'll be doing fine. And your ears will get better.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Awkwardturtle!

So I've been playing for a good 7-8 months and I really want to play a fretless bass. So I got one thinking I'll be able to easily distinguish a good note from a bad note.

As it turns out that It wasn't that easy for me. Now I'm kind of scared because I know a lot of people use their ears a lot when playing fretless. is it even possible to have perfect intonation on a fretless or is it normal to be a little off? And if so how do I work on my intonation?

Ear training isn't like a lightswitch that's either on or off; it's a gradual process - like developing the muscle memory required to achieve good intonation.

Ear training is as imperative for bassists as reading, theory, gear knowlege, and understanding the acoustics of bass frequencies. Scales, arpeggios, interval training, and tuning your bass to various reference frequencies by ear are necessary and valuable skills.

One key is to work with a qualified teacher who can assess your strengths and weaknesses and help you achieve your goals.

Back in the 60s it was common to study Simandl as part of learning to play DB; I presume it is still in widespread use when learning DB today. A bass method, like Simandl, makes it a lot easier to sight-read while playing a fretless instrument, and helps develop a left-hand method that generates more consistent results than ear training alone.

Simandl can also work well as a foundation for fretless electric bass. No matter which method you use, the key is to use a proven method and obtain objective feedback so you don't develop bad habits.

Practice consistently, learn everything you can about the technical aspects of music, be patient with yourself, and enjoy the ride - you're in it for the long haul, right?

[groooooove]

ears develop over time. you're lucky you have the option of frets- violinists have to develop their ears without the choice of an in-tune instrument all the way up the neck..

[ChrisPbass]

never give up, never surrender!

[BassChuck]

And on the subject of practice..... 10 minutes a day is far better than an hour on the weekend.
++ to the Steve Bailey book and vid.