Is well rehearsed improvisation

JAUQO III-X · #1 05-09-2009, 12:13 AM

really improvisation?

Jaydin Nathan · #2 05-09-2009, 12:18 AM

Do you mean like the solos are composed beforehand AND well rehearsed? As long as the solo is improvised live, then it's improvisation.

Mark Latimour · #3 05-09-2009, 12:20 AM

...and importantly, if a one armed deaf man plays a well rehearsed improvised solo piece alone in the woods being what he will be while being what he is and no one hears it, is he really playing a well rehearsed improvised solo piece?

bongomania · #4 05-09-2009, 01:03 AM

What about neo urban improvisation, is it truly harmolodic?

svenbass · #5 05-09-2009, 01:57 AM

I play in a modern jazz group that has compositions, yet emphasizes lots of free playing and group improvisation. After celebrating our 1st year residency, I organized a recording session at a decent studio in order to make a legit album as I felt that we were ready. Over the year many of our tunes/jams could carry on for 20, even 30 minutes - tons of exploration, lots of great stuff, some shi**y stuff, but we were all comfortable with going with the flow. In the interest of making a diverse, cohesive, and marketable recording, I decided to set a rough time limit per tune. Amazingly, in the studio we were able to capture the free nature of our music and easily meet the time limits set we set upon ourselves .... in fact the whole thing barely reaches 40 minutes. I don't think we could have achieved the great recording we made without the 52 weeks spent together playing - not really rehearsal, but effectively the same thing. As I have been reviewing the roughs in preparation for the mix, I am very surprised how different and unique each take is unto itself ... practically different tunes altogether.

So yeah, absolutely.

fullrangebass · #6 05-09-2009, 02:15 AM

Smoothing out (first few times) the inconsistencies of the original improvised un-rehearsed performance would still count as improvisation to me. Once one gets over the element of self-surprise and self-challenging within the performance, and the "improvisation" becomes a standard composition to execute, then it does not count as an improvisation any longer (for me, that is)

artistanbul · #7 05-09-2009, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

What about neo urban improvisation, is it truly harmolodic?

elros · #8 05-09-2009, 02:32 AM

It depends on the rehearsal. If you rehearse and play the exact same notes, I can't call it improvisation. But it's possible to rehearse improvised bits every time, to get comfortable with the unknown. And if we can call that rehearsal, then yes.
But it depends on the rehearsal.

funkalicious101 · #9 05-09-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

What about neo urban improvisation, is it truly harmolodic?

Not if it has anything to do with Elvis.

Deacon_Blues · #10 05-09-2009, 06:53 AM

You need to define what improvisation is before you can answer that question. To me, improvisation is a much broader concept than just playing an improvised solo, i.e. creating the solo on while playing it. It's about letting the on-the-spot created music lead the band, not the other way around by keeping strict forms everyone follows. If a solo needs to be extended to be complete, let it happen rather than cutting it in the middle. It's about listening to what each other is doing, and follow. By this (rather blurry) definition, I'd definitely answer "yes" to the question.

You only get better at improvising by rehearsing it, IMVLE (in my very limited experience).

mcm · #11 05-09-2009, 06:57 AM

IMO, no. if it rehearsed, it is not true improvisation. There is nothing wrong with rehearsing something though, it is just not improvising.

funkalicious101 · #12 05-09-2009, 07:29 PM

How "well" rehearsed are we talking?

Lo end PUNCH · #13 05-11-2009, 01:32 PM

I would say it depends on how many times its played everytime you have to play that particular piece. If its well rehearsed, (I would assumed over a period of time), wouldn't that constitute it as written? It's an arguable question though.

Banana_phone · #14 05-11-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

You need to define what improvisation is before you can answer that question. To me, improvisation is a much broader concept than just playing an improvised solo, i.e. creating the solo on while playing it. It's about letting the on-the-spot created music lead the band, not the other way around by keeping strict forms everyone follows. If a solo needs to be extended to be complete, let it happen rather than cutting it in the middle. It's about listening to what each other is doing, and follow. By this (rather blurry) definition, I'd definitely answer "yes" to the question.

You only get better at improvising by rehearsing it, IMVLE (in my very limited experience).

I agree with all Deacon said. IMVLE with improvisation, wich consists of me a pianist and a drummer playing a specific bluesy chord progression (it´s allways the same progression, we do it mid rehearsal when we are tired of praticing the band songs) not knowing where it might end or go, both rhythmically, harmonically or melodically. It is allways improvised in the sense that the chord progression works like a subject in a conversation. Sometimes we reach out too some very interesting conclusions while talking about that thing, sometimes we don´t, but the thing is that "It's about letting the on-the-spot created music lead the band" like Deacon said. I just love it when we can play that "form" or "song" and take it fluidly to a pleasurable to hear sonic place none of us ever been before, it´s pure magic.

Soo, I guess my answer to Jauqo´s question is yes, if by rehearsing an improvisation you mean playing a form while allowing the present occurencies play you too.

finalrequiem · #15 05-11-2009, 06:21 PM

I promise not to kill this one...

Bocete · #16 05-12-2009, 03:26 AM

Well, an improv based on previous improvisations "feels" the same, only you're being in familliar waters. After a while, things get more and more defined (IME) until a point where everyone knows their part, or at least expects certain phrases. At that point it loses the "improv" thrill.

I think it falls down to what do you consider well rehearsed and what is an improvisation. To me, well rehearsed is knowing how the line goes. You can stray away a bit, but if you've got a line and an arrangement you can stray away from and you're comfortable with, it's well rehearsed. And improvisation is about feeling like you're improvising, I think the feel is familliar and distinctive, easily recogniseable (sp?).

All of this is IME, which is not really much.

mvw356 · #17 05-12-2009, 04:22 AM

imo improvisation is something you come up with on the spot and cannot by definition be rehearsed.

BobaFret · #18 05-12-2009, 09:23 AM

I only do improvised hip-hop bass lines.

scotch · #19 05-12-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

What about neo urban improvisation, is it truly harmolodic?

scotch · #20 05-12-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

Is well rehearsed improvisation really improvisation?

You know what make this thread more fun & less combatative down the road? If the op would offer his view on the question. There's sort of a "III-X" template that is developing which always leads to misunderstanding & poor communication.

What do you think, Jauqo?