What determines left hand "position" ?

mdsmith · #1 06-07-2011, 05:39 AM

As stated in a previous post, I'm working throught Ed Friedland's bass method book. On the E string, it says that first position is playing the open E, then the first fret with your index finger, and the third fret with your fourth finger. This made sense to me, first position, and your playing on the first fret. The confusion started with the A string. It says first position is the open A string, then the second fret with your index finger, and the fourth fret with your fourth finger. What about the first fret? Why would first position start on the second fret? My only guess is that a postion always has to start on a natural note, but this is just a guess. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm totally new to this kind of stuff.

AFRO · #2 06-07-2011, 08:23 AM

first position; index playes 1st fret notes on all strings, middle plays 2nd fret on all strings, ring plays 3rd fret on all strings, pinky plays 4th fret notes on all strings.

note, open strings are considered part of first position as you can play some of the proper notes in scales with open strings

you may hear the term" the Grid"

so, 2nd position you move your index to the 2nd fret, middle to the 3rd, ring to 4th and pinky to 5th

so, in 8th position; index on 8th fret, middle on 9th, ring 10th pinky 11th.. for all strings
typically your "grid" starts on the lowest string.

the Idea is you want to be able to reach a lot of notes with out moving your hand around the fret board.

ya follow me?

mdsmith · #3 06-07-2011, 09:26 AM

Yup, I follow ya. That's what I though, but the book seems to be calling first position on the A string starting with the index on the 2nd fret. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

AFRO · #4 06-07-2011, 10:01 AM

its probably in the key of C, so there wont be any sharps (#) or flats (b) 2nd fret on the 'A-string' is a "B" note.

you will find that (early on at least, in explaining things) the Key of C is most prefered. once you get the concepts in the key of C, you can transpose it to other keys..

its about the whole and half steps pattern. uh, diatonic scale that is..
C(W) D(W) E(h) F(W) G(W) A(W) B(h) C. the half steps are naturally between notes that are a half step apart at E and F, and B and C.
keep digging monn.

mdsmith · #5 06-07-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFRO

its probably in the key of C, so there wont be any sharps (#) or flats (b) 2nd fret on the 'A-string' is a "B" note.

you will find that (early on at least, in explaining things) the Key of C is most prefered. once you get the concepts in the key of C, you can transpose it to other keys..

its about the whole and half steps pattern. uh, diatonic scale that is..
C(W) D(W) E(h) F(W) G(W) A(W) B(h) C. the half steps are naturally between notes that are a half step apart at E and F, and B and C.
keep digging monn.

Thanks man. I've owned this bass for about 3 years, and have learned a few songs, but that's about it. I'm determined this time to work my way through this method book. It's actually very rewarding to be learning something. The only problem is, for every one thing I learn, I come up with 10 questions.

john grey · #6 06-07-2011, 10:39 AM

Your question is logical. But you should remember that the (perhaps) biggest issue with folks who don't learn from some teaching material is that they don't move their hand in the most "shortest distance" to reach a given note.
I don't have the book: I'm guessing. But the concept is to LEARN the fret-board in a manner similar to some methods of keyboard learning. It's also my opinion that playing "shift & scale" exercises is vital and some folks just don't do it enough (especially to a metronome).

AFRO · #7 06-07-2011, 10:42 AM

well, it will be like that for the rest of the time you play so get used to it. just keep asking questions, someone will offer their input.

I started seriously working on my Theory for Bass since last Sept.. made a thread called
"Theory 101 Checklist" do a search and you can find some VERY helpful info. gave me vast wind for my sails.. still sailing.

get a metronome and get a keyboard when time and money premits. aside from a tuner and acutal "time to play" these are THE most valueable things a bass player can get their hands on. oh yeah and a good teacher too..(cant forget that part, folks will have my head. lol) I dont play the keys, but it helps to SEE how music works like I was saying with the half steps whole steps.. seeing Chords (and hearing the chord voices..) then translating it to bass. some stuff you have to invert but it still helps to see and hear, then do it on bass.. (probably getting way ahead again, but just keep plugging monn)
Peace Monn.

john grey · #8 06-07-2011, 11:05 AM

Thank the Lord someone said something about a Metronome.
I've been play for some time. But it was when I got serious about really learning some very subtle issues that my playing improved. Having something rock steady which you can later, understand, & compare to play on the beat and behind the beat is extremely valuable.
Understanding time from a drummer's perspective helped me a great deal as is being very strict with my playing. I used to hear "practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect". If I play the same doo-doo over and over, I'm not changing anything. But if I grab some discipline; I will put out new stuff everyday. I make a goal for myself and it's "learn or do one thing new each day". It doesn't matter what it is; it might be almost nothing, but I stick with it.

mdsmith · #9 06-08-2011, 04:44 AM

I got it now. I guess I sould have read ahead a couple of pages in the book. He first teaches you the natural notes in the first position, then adds the sharps and flats in that position. I was also reading the fingering wrong. He shows the A string, second fret(B) with the second finger, then the fouurth third fret(C) with the fourth finger. On the next page he shows the A string, first fret(A#) with the first finger. Well, I learned how important proper fingering is. I was playing an exercise that played notes on both the E and A strings, and was playing the second fret of the A with my index finger. I was having a really tough time getting through the exercise. Once I realized my fingering was wrong, and started playing the second fret with my second finger, the exerscise became MUCH easier.