What do I need to know to play jazz funk fusion?

[OhulahanBass]

I have become a huge fan of funk and fussion and have been practising slap and muting. I have also been play off alot of tabs. What I don' t know are guidlines for rythm, cord progression, what makes funk and jazz funk and jazz.

Can anyone give me tips or resouce suggestions?

Anyone know someone local to Boulder Colorado that would be good for leassons?

Thanks

[DWBass]

#1 Toss the tab!
#2 Woodshed on learning rhythms and grooves
#3 Listen, Listen, Listen

Listen to some old Cameo or Tower Of Power or Con Funk Shun! Do not listen to RHCP or similar! That is not real funk! It's funky and a hybrid of rock and funk but it's not what you're striving for. Check out the Funk 101 thread in recordings for names and soundbytes (some links are dead but some are still active). Study those grooves and listen closely for those little inflections that a lot of bassists miss when trying to play funk. Visit Youtube and type in funk and see what comes up. There are plenty of resources on the net! There are also a bunch of old school funk players here.

[OhulahanBass]

this is why I love this forum, funk 101 and the sound bytes will be very helpful. Thanks for the advice. Would you call George Clinton and Sly real funk? What about jazz-funk fusion?

[Zombbg4]

Weather report is a masterclass in fusion. Again listen, listen, and listen some more!

[bThumper38]

Doesn't Gary Willis still live out in Colorado?

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

this is why I love this forum, funk 101 and the sound bytes will be very helpful. Thanks for the advice. Would you call George Clinton and Sly real funk? What about jazz-funk fusion?

George Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelic and Sly & The Family Stone I would consider real funk. Jazz Funk Fusion is Headhunters, Donald Byrd & The Blackbyrds, Jeff Lorber Fusion, Nils Landgren, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Roy Ayers, Bobby Lyle, Marcus Miller.

Funk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_funk_musicians
Jazz Funk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz-funk

[Gordon of Eden]

Rocco Prestia (Tower of Power). Jaco with and without Weather Report. Jimmy Haslip with Yellowjackets. The older albums have some nice funky fusion. Alain Caron both solo and with UZEB are some ultimate examples of the funk/fusion style. That stuff can be hard to find in stores but you can see and hear almost anything on youtube. In fact you could probably just do a search for Jazz funk fusion on there and find quite a bit of valuable material.

[onlyclave]

I think you need to be able to filter the wank-fest recordings out from the musical ones.

Any of the projects that include Steve Smith and Guitar Player X and Bass Player Y are wanking.

Dapp Theory is some smoking fusion.

[StyleOverShow]

Originally Posted by DWBass

George Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelic and Sly & The Family Stone I would consider real funk. Jazz Funk Fusion is Headhunters, Donald Byrd & The Blackbyrds, Jeff Lorber Fusion, Nils Landgren, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Roy Ayers, Bobby Lyle, Marcus Miller.

Funk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_funk_musicians
Jazz Funk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz-funk

Right on the money in my book!

BTW, the fusion is neither chicken nor fowl, totally hybrid and therefore subject of debate by either the funkers or the jazzers.
IMO, of course.

-richard

-richard

[Gordon of Eden]

[quote=onlyclave;6845383]I think you need to be able to filter the wank-fest recordings out from the musical ones.

Any of the projects that include Steve Smith and Guitar Player X and Bass Player Y are wanking.

/QUOTE]

Agree 100%. Most of the things on those Steve Smith records are painfully wanky but I would not really classify those as funk/fusion. It seemed like there were at least 2 of those comming out every week for a few years

Another great player to check out os Oteil Burbridge (sp?). He can be very funky but more in a jam band context. Some stuff can get a little wanky at times as well but fun to listen to.
All of Marcus Miller's solo albums are brilliant and very funky.

[RCCollins]

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

Would you call George Clinton and Sly real funk? What about jazz-funk fusion?

It gets no more realer than George, Sly and of course Mr James Brown. So find out who played bass for them and look into it. Mr Larry Graham is essential, as is Bootsy. But what if you don't slap? Dig on Verdine White from EWF for some flowing fingerstyle that will ease you into the jazz fusion vibe. DW gave some other solid tips.

There's a great book called The Funkmasters that breaks down TONS of the classic JBs grooves track by track. It's by Allan Slutsky and you can't go wrong with that. Workin' JB grooves until you the sweat roll down ya' crack!

Now in the fusion direction there's SO many others. I mean are you ready to do your funk homework?

[JimK]

[quote=Gordon of Eden;6845449
Another great player to check out os Oteil Burbridge (sp?). He can be very funky but more in a jam band context. [/quote]

Oteil is very Funky...a lot of what's he's doing these days doesn't really show it, though.

An early Jazz-Funk outfit would be The Brecker Brothers (w/ either Will Lee or Neil Jason).

[JimK]

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

...what makes funk and jazz funk and jazz.

First off, Jazz (just like Classical & Rock music) has many genres, sub-genres, styles, etc. A book like Mark Gridley's Jazz Styles would be a nice resource to bone up on Jazz' various eras.
Like art/literature, Jazz was often a response to what was going on in the world.

Funk & Jazz-Funk
On a whole, I would say Funkers came out of an R&B bag; when those with more of a Jazz background played Funk...it was Jazz-Funk.
On a whole, I would say Jazz-Funk has more improvisation & more sophisticated harmony.

...and sometimes they meet.
One of my favourite DVDs is Prince Live At The Alladin, Las Vegas. The grooves are Funk...the soloists (sax & keys) veer more off into Jazz-Funk.

[Growler]

I may not be an old school funk player, but my $.02 is sometimes playing a bit behind the beat gives you that funky feeling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4

Odd how Bootsy plays a few notes and it sounds funky...

[OhulahanBass]

I have been listening and I will Listen some more. I haven't gotten enough since I saw P-Funk last summer nor has my drummer roomate. We play funk almost every day, though occasionally when I'm trying to bring the funk or fusion my grooves come out more rock. I was hoping there were some technical types that might help me along.

I've been listening/playing to George Clinton, Palament, Funkadelic, Bootsy and have recently been listening to Graham, Joco and Down To the Bone. This thread and the funk 101 thread have given me so many more to check out, thanks all im excited to get started.

[OhulahanBass]

Originally Posted by RCCollins

Now in the fusion direction there's SO many others. I mean are you ready to do your funk homework?

Yes, please feed my brain!

[JohnnyPustular]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Jazz Funk Fusion is Headhunters, Donald Byrd & The Blackbyrds, Jeff Lorber Fusion, Nils Landgren, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Roy Ayers, Bobby Lyle, Marcus Miller.

Back in the 1970s, all us fusion oriented cats listened to Miles Davis "Bitches Brew", Return to Forever (especially Romantic Warrior), Mahavishnu Orchestra (make sure you check out stuff w/Ralphe Armstrong- he will blow you face out), Jean Luc Ponty, and the Headhunters. Unfortunately, fusion sort of turned into Kenny G in the 80s and I lost interest. But these guys are the roots (you gotta hear Bitches Brew),

[Growler]

So I have three books that I use in order of what I use the most

1. The Funkmasters, The Great James Brown Rhythm Sections (by Slutsky and Silverman)
2. Funk Bass Bible (Hal Leonard)
3. Funk Bass (Hal Leonard Bass Method) by Chris Kringel

The second has a great collection of songs, google around for the complete song listing but there's all the Funk staples...

From the Commodores (Brick House) to Ohio Players, EarthWind and Fire, Victor Wooten, Macrus Miller, Rick James, Isley Brothers, Parliament, War, Average White Band...

you get the point... oh and Listen to as many of those tunes on the Funk101 thread...

[bass12]

Don't forget old Kool & The Gang recordings. A lot of what they were doing was pretty jazzy, and it was definitely funky. There are a lot of compilations out there. Go to your local music store and see what they have. If you want to know about funk, you have to listen to James Brown. Check out a compilation called "In The Jungle Groove" (a lot of the tracks are from 1970, when Bootsy and Catfish Collins were in the band). And don't be afraid of disco. Sure, there were plenty of bad disco records made, but there were also a lot of good disco records, with great bass lines. Have a listen to Chic - one of the baddest rhythm sections ever (also check out their work on Sister Sledge's "We Are Family" album). The best way to learn this kind of stuff is to listen and then play along (forget learning it from a book). Also check out Doug Wimbish's playing on early Sugar Hill recordings (and no, it isn't Wimbish on "Rapper's Delight"). Oh, and of course - The Meters and The Crusaders have to be mentioned!

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

Unfortunately, fusion sort of turned into Kenny G in the 80s and I lost interest.

Brutha, you weren't looking in the right direction. There was plenty of fusion to be had during the 80's! A boatload of it coming straight from Japan too!