What exactally is groove?

[Pete528]

everyone here says that in order to learn how to get good at the bass and learn improvision i have to have "groove" or something.

so what exactally is groove? yeah it's a dumb question but i am not exactally an expert bassist...

[idoru]

If you have to ask (you'll never know)...

sorry, dumb answer

Pretty big thread discussing groove here.

[Tony G]

Groove to me is feeling the music, and playing what fits. Keep the time, sit in the pocket, and make the song move.

[Funkus Barfucal]

Originally Posted by xgabriele

Groove to me is feeling the music, and playing what fits. Keep the time, sit in the pocket, and make the song move.

+1!

I'd like to add...

Don't over play it (ie... being too flashy). Trying to impress someone and playing a million notes per second is NOT groove.

Just my .002 worth.

[Correlli]

Groove is an abstract concept, just like pocket.

[OtterOnBass]

I think I've already answered this, so let me think of something new to say:

Groove is a rhythm that makes you anticipate the beat.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by Funkus Barfucal

playing a million notes per second is NOT groove.

Not unless you can groove while you do it.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Groove is an abstract concept, just like pocket.

Actually, in that other thread (referenced above), we got to a pretty good definition of pocket, and how it relates to playing on, in front of, or behind the beat.

[Vengoropatubus]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Not unless you can groove while you do it.

Actually, in that other thread (referenced above), we got to a pretty good definition of pocket, and how it relates to playing on, in front of, or behind the beat.

Actually, I think it really is physically impossible to groove at a million notes per second, since just the plucking noise of your fingers would create periodic motion outside the range of human hearing(1mhz). We've gotta keep it down to at least 20000 notes per second, and it'd probably be smart to keep it below about 400 or so.

[WJGreer]

Originally Posted by Vengoropatubus

We've gotta keep it down to at least 20000 notes per second, and it'd probably be smart to keep it below about 400 or so.

Jaco probably could have done it if he had lived until now.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Groove is an abstract concept, just like pocket.

I see it as exactly the opposite - an entirely practical proposition!

Very easy to determine if a bass line "grooves" - do people want to dance to it? If so - then it grooves!

If it is impossible to dance to your bass lines - you have no groove!!

[RiddimKing]

I think anyone who has been in band can recognize what "groove" or "pocket" is, because when you practice a song in a group setting, you notice when groove is absent, and when it's present. It's often hard to analyze, but subtle differences in the way the rhythm section locks in affect the way a song moves. It's more difficult to feel this when you're just practicing alone to records, but multiple rehearsal of the same song in an ensemble gives you a point of reference, and when groove happens, there's a definite feeling of "aha!" and when it doesn't, everyone just gets a sour smile...

[IB3K]

Tonally it's a distinct combination of rhythm and melody in the bass register that sets a mood that all the other instruments can get on board. Emotionally groove is an express train to your soul that shows you in just a few notes what it means to be a human being. Motown is the mecca of groove.

Bass players talk about it so much because we are the only instrument that can as a solo instrument deliver it so effectively. Drums alone can't, horns alone can't, guitars alone can't, well keyboards kind of can, but they are not as effective as we are at doing it. Seriously, when I was in a funk cover band I would play AJ's For The Love of Money intro for 30/40 seconds and have half the people out of their seats on the dance floor, then the drums kick in and everyone gets up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny_j-bAhq68

BUT it's not just about dancing, groove's about mood that can take you to many other places. For example, Jr. Walker and the All Stars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOIRm_DB66I

Express train to your soul. If you can't drive the train then nobody can get on and you will be a very frustrated bass player.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by OtterOnBass

I think I've already answered this, so let me think of something new to say:

Groove is a rhythm that makes you anticipate the beat.

Otter, that's a great take on the idea.
Perhaps the closest to a technical definition I have seen so far.

It gives a useful criteria for measuring which techniques can be applied to "groove"

Altho it also begs the question which beat do you want to anticipate. I suppose it's genre dependant to an extent. Example: For rock or R&B I like basslines that anticipate the snare on beat 2 (& 4)
or for Cuban stuff, anticipating (but rarely playing) the 1 is the usual rule....

[gizmobltd]

I posted talmost the same thread about 2 weeks ago. I had alot of good answers so if you want to search for it

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I see it as exactly the opposite - an entirely practical proposition!

Very easy to determine if a bass line "grooves" - do people want to dance to it? If so - then it grooves!

If it is impossible to dance to your bass lines - you have no groove!!

music has been well defined for a long time as having 3 main elements - Rhthym, Harmony, Melody.

Groove and Pocket mearly describes a feeling you get when listening to a particular type of music, which is subjective because we all perceive art forms in different ways. Therefor, if we're are dealing with "feelings", it's abstract.

Does Debussy's piano preludes groove? You would probably say no, because you can't dance to it. But it has Rhythm, Harmony, and Melody.

When Groove and Pocket appear in the Havard Dictionary of Music, then I wil accept these terms as being more than just a figment of the immagination.

[mutedeity]

It is getting to the point where I want to beat someone to death with my bass if they talk about groove related to anything I play. Groove is nothing but a concept where people try to arbitrarily define thier opinion of what is appropriate for a person to play in a given context. The way it gets tossed about like it is the most important factor in playing makes me want to go and become the Malmsteem of bass and be the most hated bassplayer on the planet just so no-one ever calls anything I do groovy. It's a stupid hippy word.

[Lalabadie]

Groove seems to me as not a measure but merely a mark of appreciation. If others like your song (especially if they feel like dancing on it) they will call it groovy. A song of similar quality but oriented more towards melody and harmony will probably give the idea of closing your eyes and feel the beauty of it, and thus be called "beautiful" rather than groovy. But it's just as good.

Practice following the beat, playing in time, and one day you'll end up using all kinds of mutes, accents, staccatos, legatos, etc. to spice up your playing in a way that sounds groovy!

I guess it's when you don't worry about fitting in a mold that you give the best of you, so play what you feel is the best bass line and see how people from the audience suddenly come up to you to talk about your "groovy", or "beautiful", or "awesome" bass playing.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

music has been well defined for a long time as having 3 main elements - Rhthym, Harmony, Melody.

Groove and Pocket mearly describes a feeling you get when listening to a particular type of music, which is subjective because we all perceive art forms in different ways. Therefor, if we're are dealing with "feelings", it's abstract.

Does Debussy's piano preludes groove? You would probably say no, because you can't dance to it. But it has Rhythm, Harmony, and Melody.

When Groove and Pocket appear in the Havard Dictionary of Music, then I wil accept these terms as being more than just a figment of the immagination.

Well - there are many "classical" pieces that were written as dance music and many that were not!

Debussy's music often has no defined rhythm and is known for its ethereal floating quality.

Whereas Beethoven's 7th was called the apothesois of the dance by Wagner and his 5th definitely has a groove!

Stravinsky's ballets have some great groove music and I always want to tap my feet in the "infernal dance"!

[Bruce Lindfield]

For those who are still doubtful I recommend :

http://www.gr00ve.com/

and I like this quote on their front page :

"...even the people who can't dance wanna feel like dancing, thats where groove comes in."-Steve Telehus

[Erick Lam]

It's the modern swing.