What exactly is a Harmolodic bass line?

uethanian · #2 05-06-2009, 11:43 PM

my guess is a bad synonym for counterpoint; a bass line that supports harmony but also functions as an independent line

bongomania · #3 05-06-2009, 11:45 PM

Or a line that serves any purpose other than traditional chord progressions.

()smoke() · #4 05-06-2009, 11:47 PM

i don't know, but thanks for posting the question because i was completely ignorant of harmolodics until i searched the idea after seeing this...it's funny that a lot of the musically creative outlets i've played in leaned toward this idea (not nearly as well as ornette coleman, ha), but i didn't even think to analyze it and make sense of it

would you consider your work with the low C# theory harmolodic?

Blaine · #5 05-07-2009, 12:19 AM

So, my brush with greatness,
some time around 1995 i got a call on my answering machine from,,,, Ornette coleman. needs an upright bass player, i was recommended, etc.. i talked to him and met him at his studio in harlem. I had tried in vain to understand harmolodics in the past and tried to cram in anything i could in the week before our meeting. Needless to say it was all a big question mark when i walked in. All i can say was we met and played for about 2 1/2 hours and he talked music theory in between. mostly it was all a blur of nonsense. But at one point he said something, I can't remember what, that instantly made complete sense of the last couple hours. It was like the hood was pulled away and I looked at him and he looked at me and said, " yeah,,,I know what I'm talking about." And about 10 seconds later it all left my head and I was just as confused as before. My only other memory of that day was him asking me what standard I would like to play and I said If I Should Lose You. And he played the complete **** out of it. Sounded absolutely beautiful.

JAUQO III-X · #6 05-07-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

would you consider your work with the low C# theory harmolodic?

Yes and no. There are elements of it on that recording as well as my own concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaine

My only other memory of that day was him asking me what standard I would like to play and I said If I Should Lose You. And he played the complete **** out of it. Sounded absolutely beautiful.

Whats interesting is that a lot of people thinks that Ornette can only play what he is known for playing. But he is really a well versed artist.

chicago_mike · #7 05-07-2009, 01:09 AM

Hey J, do you have a link to that interview from a while ago?

JAUQO III-X · #8 05-07-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicago_mike

Hey J, do you have a link to that interview from a while ago?

What interview?

chicago_mike · #9 05-07-2009, 05:22 AM

You did an interview some time ago that I think you wanted me to help you link it to your site. It was about your cd, and Ornette, and harmolodics.

Banana_phone · #10 05-07-2009, 06:22 AM

Hi there!
I wonder, how would you answer to your question Juaqo?

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #11 05-07-2009, 07:46 AM

It's where you play whatever random sh** that comes into your head and then tell your band they have to play along

We should get Charlie Haden on these boards!

Blake Bass · #12 05-07-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Ornette coleman. needs an upright bass player

So did you get the gig?

JAUQO III-X · #13 05-07-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicago_mike

You did an interview some time ago that I think you wanted me to help you link it to your site. It was about your cd, and Ornette, and harmolodics.

I have it on a CD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

It's where you play whatever random sh** that comes into your head and then tell your band they have to play along

That's something that you really want to believe isn't it?

There really is a whole lot more to it than what you described.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #14 05-07-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

That's something that you really want to believe isn't it?

There really is a whole lot more to it than what you described.

Not at all- I was making a bad joke. I like The Shape of Jazz To Come. Had a harder time enjoying Free Jazz, but I see what's there to it. I would really like to get Charlie Haden on the boards- he's one of my favorite players.

JAUQO III-X · #15 05-07-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Not at all- I was making a bad joke. I like The Shape of Jazz To Come. Had a harder time enjoying Free Jazz, but I see what's there to it. I would really like to get Charlie Haden on the boards- he's one of my favorite players.

Bryan I was just messing with you.

**Bryan R. Tyler** · #16 05-07-2009, 08:18 AM

Suuuuure you were

Who would be some artists that are well-known for using harmolodics nowadays, anyways? I've heard some John Zorn stuff that seems like it would fit the bill, but am largely uninformed otherwise.

JAUQO III-X · #17 05-07-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Who would be some artists that are well-known for using harmolodics nowadays, anyways? I've heard some John Zorn stuff that seems like it would fit the bill

What Zorn does doesn't fit.

Check out early Blood Ulmer.

Jamaaladeen Tacuma

Bern Nix.

Vernon Reid

Jauqo III-X

Free Form Frequency(a trio that consist of J. Tacuma,V. Reid and drummer Calvin Weston).

Check out Ornettes electric band called Prime Time

RCCollins · #18 05-07-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Suuuuure you were

Who would be some artists that are well-known for using harmolodics nowadays, anyways? I've heard some John Zorn stuff that seems like it would fit the bill, but am largely uninformed otherwise.

I recently saw an interview with zorn, in which he states (claims?) that he's discussed harmolodics with ornette, whose music he loves, and that he basically doesn't "get" what harmolodics is, that he doesn't consider it a "theory" because it can't really be written down, and finally, that his own compositions and performance have nothing to do with ornette coleman's harmolodic theory.

I guess he no longer remembers recording "spy vs spy: the music of ornette coleman"... hmmmm

Low Main · #19 05-07-2009, 08:36 AM

Nice to see an Ornette thread, so I can't resist the opportunity to mention Albert McDowell, one time bassist in the early 80's version of Prime Time. He and Tacuma were both in the band at the same time. Two of everything - guitar, bass, drums, plus Ornette.

I saw Albert say it all on bass with that group - a level of brilliance and command I have rarely ever seen elsewhere in my travels. Tacuma was the guy with the star power name, but McDowell was the guy who was making the heavy stuff happen.

JAUQO III-X · #20 05-07-2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

I recently saw an interview with zorn, and that he basically doesn't "get" what harmolodics is,

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

that he doesn't consider it a "theory"

How can he,when he even said that he doesn't get it.

So of course the next thing to do is to discredit it.

Like I said there is no Harmolodics in the Zorns music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCollins

because it can't really be written down

That's a strait out lie.

I have actual theory.chords and scale concepts and bass lines that Ornette actually wrote out for me during the time I was staying with him.

A lot of the bass lines that are incorporated in Ornettes music is written out(believe it or not).