What happened to the concept of groove?

[JAUQO III-X]

With the influx of so much music being pushed on society today why is there such a severe lack of groove from the bassists in most of the music today especially Pop?

It seems like bass players have really lost the focus/ability to be groovers or lack having a concept of what a groove is or how to develop one.

I'm not asking for any one to point out players that you feel are strong groovers because with all due respect that is not what I'm asking.

[Depth_Charge]

The last band I played in metamorphed from a classic/Top40's rock band to a female led new-age pop band of sorts (half the reason I quit!)

When learning the newer songs being added (Kelly Clarkson, Avril Lavigne, Pink etc) I must admit that I noticed the same thing. Strong reliance on driving bass lines and strict adherence to standard patterns, not much variation between songs or artists and not much real groove going on. I used to add my own, much to the amusement of the rythm guitarist

From my own limited perspective I concluded the primary reason was probably because the marketable part of the music was the hot chic vocalist who needed to stand out from the band to be profitable for her "makers".

[xlows]

But look at what popular music is these days. A pop-punk band like Fall Out Boy doesn't rely on groove as much as simple hummable music. Bands don't work the same way that they used to in the top 40.

[EmperorDoom]

A bass isn't always so necessary.. for instance the white stripes sound kickass but no bass player

personally I love to just groove on the bass.. it's a lot of fun to lock in with the drummer and repeat the lick with variation. however some songs my band plays sound nicer with a more melodic flowing bass line

[JimmyM]

The concept of groove isn't lost. It's just that the stupid morons at record companies only sign bands and artists based on how young they are and how much money they have to throw around for payola and whatnot. And then the band is given one chance and one chance only to be a success, and if they're not, they're dropped immediately.

And people think downloading killed the music business...my ass!

[ben_the_bass]

I've never really understood what a groove is, I've only heard it referenced. Maybe someone could give me a definition?

[phat daddy]

Groove is inherent in the 70's funk style and has been weeded out more and more slowly ever since. I've made a lot of my living hearking back to the 70's and 80's which helps my own concept of groove, but after a style is more than 25 years old they start to weed it out of the clubs, especially with the advent of the DJ era. In the 90's the clubs liked funk and disco and grunge, but now it's 80's retro and today's rigamorole. We are getting farther away from groove-based popular music and farther into Pro-tools looped lip syncers.
And I'll quote 20db pad-- this too shall pass. I just don't know what it will pass into.

[meev992]

My current band lacks a rhythm guitarist, so keeping things simple and grooving, is my job.

not much else to add

[Billy Low]

Originally Posted by phat daddy

Groove is inherent in the 70's funk style and has been weeded out more and more slowly ever since.

I can appreciate your comment, but I think that definition is a bit shallow. If what you are saying is correct cats like Jamerson, Dunn, Carter (primarily his walking lines), Mingus, Aston Barrett, Billy Cox didn't groove. Groove is about syncopation, not style of music. There are many genre's of music that can have a groove other than funk.

Most of the artist/producers/listeners today can't identify a groove if they heard it! Therfore, unfortunately, groove has become irrelevant.

[JimmyM]

I don't agree at all that groove is irrelevant. Look at how many people love the old stuff. Motown songs get almost as much play now as they got in the 60's. I play oldies shows and even though the majority of the people there are older, there's always a lot of kids there, too, and they genuinely love the old stuff. And there is a lot of great stuff out there today with heavy grooves. The problem is that most people won't hear it because of the stuff I mentioned before. It all comes down to money. Bands with money are the only ones that get pushed.

[Rune Bivrin]

Groove has gone the same way as proper spelling, raising children and stuff that stood up to heavy use: Down the drain. And this has been going on ever since Ancient Greece.

Yet, somehow we manage, and new generations of teenage girls find new idols to throw their undies at. Maybe old farts like us just fail to see the values and qualities of the emerging world?

[Pacman]

There's plenty of groove in modern music. It just doesn't sound like you want it to. Open your ears.

[Deacon_Blues]

Originally Posted by Pacman

There's plenty of groove in modern music. It just doesn't sound like you want it to. Open your ears.

I agree with this. Like beauty is in the eyes of the viewer, groove is in the ears of the listener. ()

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Pacman

There's plenty of groove in modern music. It just doesn't sound like you want it to. Open your ears.

That's the problem,My ears are beyond open and most of the grooving in music I do hear can be classified as regurgitation.

Just recently I brought this same subject up during a conversation with Bill Dickens and he agreed that serious Groove is really lacking and there is no grit in the grooves.

It's all dumbed down for the most part for many reasons I'm sure.

[Jazz Ad]

I do not believe that groove is mandatory for all styles of music.
Metal and coldwave do fine without it for example.
80s music is coming back into pop fashion these days.
It wasn't a very groovy era so I understand that many bands don't groove a lot.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

With the influx of so much music being pushed on society today why is there such a severe lack of groove from the bassists in most of the music today especially Pop?

It seems like bass players have really lost the focus/ability to be groovers or lack having a concept of what a groove is or how to develop one.

I'm not asking for any one to point out players that you feel are strong groovers because with all due respect that is not what I'm asking.

Lot's of sequences, key bass, etc. in a lot of the pop music on the 'top 25' today. Same thing happened in the 80's for a while. The 'Groove' always comes back!

Actually, while some of the songwriting can be rather insipid, the closest thing to the old 'stax/Motown' sort of groove playing (real bass, real drums, excellent musicianship, tight ensemble playing, and production that allows the bass and drums tone and time nuance to come through on the final track) is a lot of the modern Country stuff on the newer country stations. Listen to Michael Rhodes on the newest Vince Gill multiple CD release. And hey, Vinnie C. was playing drums for Faith Hill for a while.

There's a lot of amazing playing going on in that genre at the moment IMO.

That being said, the groove is still around in a ton of new music. It just doesn't get on the radio as much right now. Styles ebb and flow.... give it another 6 months, and the planets will realign for the umpteenth time!

[morf]

Dont worry. The newer generations, kids around my age and under, start to listen for the groove more and more.

Just the other day I had my 19yr old death/black metal guitarist/drummer/bassist brother listen to the first few albums of The Meters. He had all his friends in for a listen, and everyone really seemed to dig it. Now when he practices drums he plays funk

Another example would be the young bassists on this very board. Plenty of them know what groove is and want to attain that if they haven't already.

It went out of fashion because it was still only 15-20 years old and technology was peaking, new methods were found and it freshened the industry, so to speak, but good music will always be good music and bad music bad music, which is why there is no doubt in my mind that bassists and musicians in general will slowly but surely look to find the groove again

[john turner]

nothing new, really. while there have been exceptions, i don't think "pop" music as a genre has any quantifiable groove (in the classic sense) since motown.

[stedtale]

Originally Posted by xlows

But look at what popular music is these days. A pop-punk band like Fall Out Boy doesn't rely on groove as much as simple hummable music. Bands don't work the same way that they used to in the top 40.

bingo

[John Wentzien]

Drum machines have perfect "Time", but they CANNOT groove. Groove is a human element that flows with time. You can't "copy & paste" the groove.