What makes a great Eletric Bassist

[madeinthePRC!]

Hey Everyone,

I've played Double bass for a few years and i'm just finishing high school in Australia. I'm fanatical about double bass and have worked myself to death the past few years. On repitoire and contempary double bass
And i've been playing a fair bit of eletric bass recently too.
I go to a highly musical school and i've noticed that most of the bassists there are not doing anything i can't do, I mean its not mindblowing technique, just modes and good timing. Even some world renowed bassists like Tal Wilkenfeild i'm not blown away by, stanly stuart though, thats another story....lol But anyhow i'm wondering. Is playing eletric bass and playing with legendary people more about being predictable, tight and concistant and reading rather than being concistant and having amazing chops/technique.

...Ps i didn't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk ! I'd just love to know what people think what makes a great bassist!

[Dave Muscato]

Most working bassists I know/know of, even the big name ones, are valued and valuable because they are tight, consistent, and can hold a groove.

The bass is mostly a rhythm instrument, not a melody one.

Chops and virtuosity have their place but rarely overlap with the bass voice in the bigger context of music in general, in my experience.

[Jactap]

I agree with Dave. In my experience bass is usually plays a supportive role so being tight and consistent is valued. Having chops is good too; the trick is knowing when to use them.

[JimmyM]

I could give you a million reasons why a guy like Cliff Williams of AC/DC is as good as Victor Wooten, but it has nothing to do with predictability or chops or any of that nonsense. What it has to do with is playing what the song needs, and putting everything you've got into making it an emotional experience. If that means pounding a root like Cliff usually does, so be it. If it means an amazing display of chops like Vic, so be it. But what'll make you great as a bassist is putting the song over, even if it doesn't make you look like a god.

BTW, some of the most fluent chopsmeisters can't play a steady eighth-note pulse or a ballad with whole notes on the one right where they're supposed to be, so don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Tendollarcat]

I couldn't agree more with what has been said.

I believe that great electric bassists have taste. Theres plenty of players out there who can slap and tap and churn out legato runs. Too many players out there can do music shop slap riffs or ape Jaco on a fretless. The true test for these people is their inability to sit perfectly between the drums and the other melodic instruments in a band situation. Many "technical" players I know are incapable of playing supportive grooves. Thats all good and well if you consider bass to be a lead instument only. You won't get many gigs playing this way in my experience.

My favourite players have great ears. They lock down grooves with whatever musical situation they are in, and even when they cut loose, they are innovative and adding more to the song. This isn't a dull root note approach. It's approaching every single song differently. If it's root notes, the placement of the note becomes the priority. If it's a solo, it has a point.

I've been listening to a bit of Pino Palladino and James Jamerson lately. These guys are perfect examples of players who can own a song, support a groove, play busy, play mellow, tear a section up and never take anything away from the original intention of the music.

To be honest, it's pretty easy to master techniques with practise. It gets easier with time to shred and impress people generally. The real art for me is knowing when to use these techniques and knowing when to shut the hell up.

[Boombass76]

Originally Posted by madeinthePRC!

Hey Everyone,

I've played Double bass for a few years and i'm just finishing high school in Australia. I'm fanatical about double bass and have worked myself to death the past few years. On repitoire and contempary double bass
And i've been playing a fair bit of eletric bass recently too.
I go to a highly musical school and i've noticed that most of the bassists there are not doing anything i can't do, I mean its not mindblowing technique, just modes and good timing. Even some world renowed bassists like Tal Wilkenfeild i'm not blown away by, stanly stuart though, thats another story....lol But anyhow i'm wondering. Is playing eletric bass and playing with legendary people more about being predictable, tight and concistant and reading rather than being concistant and having amazing chops/technique.

...Ps i didn't mean to sound like an arrogant jerk ! I'd just love to know what people think what makes a great bassist!

..good timing and groove is never just "just"! It's the only thing that REALLY matters - upright or electric, no difference.

[Petethebassman]

What makes a great electric bassist? The same three T's that apply to upright bassists too: time, tone, taste. Being musical and conscious of the big picture and context, which IMO means playing with the overall arrangement in mind, to play what the song needs. Chops and technique are just tools in service of music. Or that's at least the way it should be IMO. I couldn't care less if a player has "amazing chops" or "mindblowing technique" or hasn't, the musical result matters.

[madeinthePRC!]

Originally Posted by Tendollarcat

I couldn't agree more with what has been said.


To be honest, it's pretty easy to master techniques with practise. It gets easier with time to shred and impress people generally. The real art for me is knowing when to use these techniques and knowing when to shut the hell up.

So true

[jaxsn]

In My (Jaxsn) Opinion –
(Wait, just think about this for a moment, it applies to anything you do)


A great electric bassist, in one who can make the bass do whatever
he/she wants the bass to do. Not just doing what everyone else can do.

If the bass becomes an extension of your arm, it is not just an
instrument anymore, it becomes part of you; your thinking, your
emotion, and your voice. Ultimately, your expression and uniqueness (the quality of being one of a kind).

Greatness in a person/bassist is when that person/bassist accepts who they are and digs deep down in their soul with confidence to
make their own voice clearly heard, pushing their own limits for SELF-SATISFACTION.

No offense, but how can one be great if they are imitating
(reproduce someone's behavior or looks) another?

One major definition of GREAT is (adjective): (used of persons)
standing above others in character or attainment or reputation.

Another major definition of GREAT is: remarkable or out of the
ordinary in degree or magnitude or effect.

Innovate = GREAT
Imitate = FAKE

They both look good, but one came from the soul.

So all the slapping, tapping, or just plain plucking really is not “IT”.

“IT” is how well you do “IT” compared to others, and the best way
to do “IT” well, starts when “IT” comes from your heart.
Then you get that “IT” and that “soul”, that special glow that people
see and feel, knowing that you are not “reading some chart, but
the chart desires to read you.
“IT” is Greatness, that can not fully be put on paper.

“IT” is the GREAT in YOU.

(“IT” has nothing to do with money, Money finds “IT”)

After saying all this, the bottom line is:
If you have “IT”, you'll have greatness,
but everyone does not and will not have “IT”

Jaxsn.com 10-25-08

[madeinthePRC!]

This is some great stuff, its funny because since repitoire double bass is so much 'too much even,' about the technique the musicality sometimes takes a back seat. Well not in solo repitoire,

'back seat' thats little shocking, but its not your choice what to do its the conductors in an orchestra. so it seems so obvious that musicality should be so important in a situation where the music is more exposed and you have better ablity to respond to the ensemble, rather then rely on other peoples interpritations

this has shed much light on the subject of me, thanks folks!

-Happy Bassing!

[madeinthePRC!]

Wow what a reply Jaxon, thats going on my wall thanks mate!

[lunarpollen]

I would say it's a matter of opinion. But in my opinion a great bassist (or great guitarist/drummer/whatever) plays whats best for the song and best for the band. An amazing bassist does this while also being distinctive.

Chops and technique might make one an amazing solo instrumentalist, but it doesn't make one a great player in the context of a song or a band. I think a great bassist (or player of any instrument) is one who puts aside his or her ego and plays for the sake of the song and the entire arrangement. Chops and technique generally don't impress me; they're like "stupid pet tricks" or idiot savant skills. What makes one great is good taste, good tone, and the ability to play something to make a song/arrangement/band shine (i.e., not to show off one's chops).

[jaxsn]

Originally Posted by madeinthePRC!

Wow what a reply Jaxsn, thats going on my wall thanks mate!

Just my spirit speaking my feelings for me...
I too was thinking " wow, I should put this on my website."

Seriously, this is a good topic idea you posted.
It can really help anyone focus on getting "it" together to be all they can be.

I think another future thread could be.
"why do you play bass?"
NOT WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO PLAY.
and please don't use "for the money"

"why do you continue to play bass", and other than yourself, and the fans,
"who do you play for."

the answers may be pretty wild.

hum....????
really sounds like an interesting post.



10 bass plays from jax

[4bpauly]

I believe technique is only needed insofar as it does not hinder your performance.

so, i agree with you... as long as you are ABLE to play what you feel YOU need to play, you are doing fine... the confusion starts when people lie to themselves saying they don't need a technique when they do... this same thinking is used when people use a technique and lie to themselves saying it is best for the song.

don't get me wrong... Victor Wooten has chops, but even with the Bela Fleck stuff... I think he overplays...or simply... plays the wrong things...

there are many bass players out there who have a unique voice and chops, but still manage to serve their playing situation.

thoughts?

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Most working bassists I know/know of, even the big name ones, are valued and valuable because they are tight, consistent, and can hold a groove.

The bass is mostly a rhythm instrument, not a melodic one.

Chops and virtuosity have their place but rarely overlap with the bass voice in the bigger context of music in general, in my experience.

+1

Well said.
Being able to accept the apparently unvirtuosic role of electric Bass in most textures is unappealing to a lot of younger players. IMHO, they later discover that what is really going on is deeply challenging and quite rewarding.

Of course it is very important to be able to solo well in a wide variety of styles. It is exciting and fun to solo or carry the main voice. However, you will notice that all the great bass stars who do that usually have a deeply grooving bassist backing them.

That the OP has done his/her homework on the DB is very very cool.

[madeinthePRC!]

Yes i think that definatly bass playing is about the groove and supporting and accompaning others, when called for, a solo works but its all about moderation and taking it with a grain of salt, i've found.
On the issue of ego i had a bass teacher, who passed away last year. He was a crazy good bassist, eltetric and double. the point is he was a humble man who had no ego. When taking a solo it would only be in conjunction with other musicians, as in not to overplay. and always to have a good time doing it!
But he did what suited the mood. Thats class' if ever i heard it. and thats somthing thats stuck with me

This is another point about keeping a groove and supporting others in my opinion,

Cheers guys for the great responces!

[Dr. Cheese]

It might be a good idea to listen to great drummers like Dennis Chambers and Steve Gadd, or Harvey Mason. Great drummers know how to be truly musical and special while allowing the other instruments to play their roles.

Two great do it all bassists are Richard Bona and Marcus Miller. Both guys can really shine in any musical context, whether being supportive or soloing.

There are dozens of fantastic more traditional bassists to check out too. A few I recommend would be Tony Levin, Lee Sklar, Nathan East, and James Genus. Raphael Saadiq is a great pop/r&b bassist who plays perfectly for all songs.

Finally, every bassist decides what she or he wants to do. To be great, you simply work very, very hard at achieving your vision.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I could give you a million reasons why a guy like Cliff Williams of AC/DC is as good as Victor Wooten, but it has nothing to do with predictability or chops or any of that nonsense. What it has to do with is playing what the song needs, and putting everything you've got into making it an emotional experience. If that means pounding a root like Cliff usually does, so be it. If it means an amazing display of chops like Vic, so be it. But what'll make you great as a bassist is putting the song over, even if it doesn't make you look like a god.

BTW, some of the most fluent chopsmeisters can't play a steady eighth-note pulse or a ballad with whole notes on the one right where they're supposed to be, so don't knock it till you've tried it.

+1 Great post. More Tber's need to understand that its not about how great your chops are its what the song needs or the style of music you playing. I am not a great bass player but i have good meter and remain in a solid pocket support role for my band or for the music i am performing. I get told all the time how much i add to the song by just playing solid ...not flashy. I have heard alot of bands and players in different forms of music say too many bass players want to play like Victor Wooten. Poor Vic his has become the handle for overplaying bass wanking in the normal music world most of us play in. Victor is a true master and a great player but alot of us normal players get compared to him as overplaying or wanking. Simple roots and eighth-notes like said here isnt as easy for some as flashy playing. Pocket playing is the heart of great bass in any song.

[Lesfunk]

Behind every great electric bassist is a great electric woman!

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by madeinthePRC!

Is playing eletric bass and playing with legendary people more about being predictable, tight and concistant and reading rather than being consistant and having amazing chops/technique.

yes.
not that I've played with anybody legendary.

Although I'd modify "predictable" to be "dependable"...there is room for interpretation, as long as you can support whats going on.