What's the typical way to outline a 9, 11 or 13 chord?

DeanAngerer · #1 10-13-2008, 07:48 PM

Working within a single octave with chords like Em7 I understand. The main outlining tones are 1, b3, 5, and b7. But how does that work with say an E9? Would your notes be 1,3,5,7, and 9? If so, which four would be most important for a quarter note walking bass line. I would guess you could cut out the 5 because it's not as defining.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

HaVIC5 · #2 10-13-2008, 08:10 PM

Rule of thumb with extensions (Berklee-speak "tensions") like the 9, 11 and 13 is that they aren't chord tones, merely "colors", and shouldn't be treated as fundamental parts of the harmony. They're extensions of the basic chord sound, hence "extensions". Beyond the octave, there is very rarely an instance where you would need to play extensions the same way you would play the basic chord tones. Stick with the seventh chord, and even better yet, stick with the triad. Your job as a bass player is to provide this foundation for the other parts of the harmony to extend off of.

EADG mx · #3 10-14-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanAngerer

Working within a single octave with chords like Em7 I understand. The main outlining tones are 1, b3, 5, and b7. But how does that work with say an E9? Would your notes be 1,3,5,7, and 9? If so, which four would be most important for a quarter note walking bass line. I would guess you could cut out the 5 because it's not as defining.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

An E9 would have a 1 3 5 b7 9

As for what to play:

if playing chords you're right, the 5th is not an important chord tone

if we're talking walking bass, I second Adam on the notion that it's more important to stick to triads and 7th chords. Not to say that you can't hit the tensions, but playing the fundamental notes of the chord are your priority. As a general rule of thumb I use the tensions rarely (if ever), and definitely not on a strong beat.

DeanAngerer · #4 10-14-2008, 07:12 PM

Okay, thanks for the advice. My follow-up question is this: When I see an E9, E11, or E13 and just play the triads or 7ths of those chords, are those automatically understood to be dominant 7ths or major sevenths? I'm guessing it's dominant, but I just want to be sure.

JimK · #5 10-15-2008, 05:05 AM

Dominant.

JTE · #6 10-15-2008, 08:40 AM

Generally accepted nomenclature is that if they say 7, 9, 11, or 13 they mean dominant. If they want a major 9 they'll tell you it's a major 9. Same with a minor.

And, as the others have said, the typical bass function is to not worry about the extensions above the 7th, but to outline the dominant chord.

jte

StyleOverShow · #7 10-15-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

..And, as the others have said, the typical bass function is to not worry about the extensions above the 7th, but to outline the dominant chord.

Particularly in passing tones they become useful to understand and play.

In regards to sticking to triads, in JAZZ, I watch out for and carefully play the flatted 5ths, etc. It really boosts the harmonies/voicing of the KB or guitar, IMO, but it takes some getting used to.

I also find them useful in creating arpeggios.

B.C. · #8 10-15-2008, 11:12 PM

Generally, in walking a bassline, stick to root, 3rds and 7ths and to a lesser extent(IMHO and IME) the 5th. However, after the sax player has blown his 20 or 30th chorus, walking about it can be useful, just as long as the music calls for it. Like if you know your pianist/guitarist and they will understand what you are doing, it can make for some very interesting chorus(chori??)

azureblue · #9 10-15-2008, 11:23 PM

But ALWAYS know the melody, and walk to support the melody, not the chord structure. Do not learn a tune solely as a series of chords- always learn and be able to play the melody. When you get good at this, you can hit harmonies with the melody that will really make your bass part shine

But know the extensions, and listen for them during the solos, then you can work them in accordingly.

A tip on extensions: they imply another chord and sometimes an alternate chord progression. Look at extensions as polychords. Look for alternate chords, and look for the "in between" chords- the ones that are not given but are implied. A good walk will imply an alternate chord progression. Think tension and resolution.