when to avoid fast notes

[wicked_child]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO3QlX7Yk3w

that is cliff burton's whiplash. for me the main reason why he avoided those triplets is to achieve a "heavier" sound. what is your opinion?

[onlyclave]

What triplets?

Sounds to me like he just has crappy articulation and slides his hand up and down he neck while he plays open strings. That's when you avoid fast notes.

[tmsteph]

you could attribute the lack of triplets to artistic license, but for me, that isolated track was a bit painful to listen to in general. he was a very decent musician, but his technique was simply horrible. thats probably why he used crazy amounts of distortion and did not sit loudly in the band mix. just my opinion. please dont flame

[tranceFusion]

wow. cliff sucks. i may have to rethink my love for old metallica

[Geezerman]

**** tone but i hear triplets?

[wicked_child]

the guitar does them, he doesnt. IMHO, it adds more "weight" to the song. yeah, kinda horrible to listen to but sits in well on the final mix.

[HaVIC5]

That really wasn't good at all. Sloppy, and poor timing.

[Luke19Boarder]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

That really wasn't good at all. Sloppy, and poor timing.

agreed.

[tranceFusion]

listen to all those Cliff master tracks. they suck. I wish I didn't listen to them. I went back and listened to Battery and all I can hear now is Cliff's buzzing and clanking.

[jaywa]

WHAT? Someone dares question the legacy of Cliff?!

Look, I've never gotten all the love for Cliff personally. I think he was good for the band and clearly he had a bond with the other guys that went way behind music. The band has had better bassists (and MUCH better bass tone) in the post-Cliff era, but they haven't been the same, chemistry wise.

That being said... a lot of times when the bassist is buried in the mix and/or heavily distorted or effected, there's a very good reason for it. That's all I'll say.

[Tom Servo]

Let he who has unlimited studio time cast the first stone

I sat in for a few metal bands when they were recording demo tapes way back when, and the food chain was:

1. Lead guitar
2. Harmonized ead Guitar
3. Lead vocals
4. Backup vocals
5. Rhythm guitar
6. Lead guitar overdubs
7. Drums
8. Drums
9. Bass

Often, it would take days to fiddle over just the right vocal and guitar takes. The bassist was expected to lay his part down in one or two takes, almost as an afterthought. In many cases, the bass was expected to sit so low in the mix, it was seen as not mattering.

Usually, by the time the bass was to be recorded, everyone was realizing just how much of a bill they'd just run up for studio time, and the whole idea was, "hurry up, already," or, "let's get this over with!"

If you're overdubbing everything (like Metallica did), then it's hard to pick up the chemistry, and you really need a couple of takes to warm up. Unfortunately, you're not given a chance.

Of course, alot of isolated bass tracks sound odd. Check out the one for YYZ. At 1:50 or so, you can hear that the solo breaks were punched in, and he's a little shaky afterwards. And that's Geddy Lee, man.

Point is, the studio is a different arena than the stage, and it often places bassists in difficult circumstances.

[wicked_child]

Originally Posted by jaywa

That being said... a lot of times when the bassist is buried in the mix and/or heavily distorted or effected, there's a very good reason for it. That's all I'll say.

i hope the guys can name a good reason for burying jason on the AJFA mix. his isolated tracks were phenomenal.

[jnuts1]

tom you are right, i never had more than a couple takes in the studio. but i don't think time constraints was his problem in this track.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by wicked_child

i hope the guys can name a good reason for burying jason on the AJFA mix. his isolated tracks were phenomenal.

The reason he was buried on AJFA is that he wasn't Cliff. Hetfield and Ulrich have as much as admitted that as a fact. They mixed him out as part of their sick hazing process. End result, one of the crappiest sounding records in the history of rock.

[Memitim]

Originally Posted by jaywa

The reason he was buried on AJFA is that he wasn't Cliff. Hetfield and Ulrich have as much as admitted that as a fact. They mixed him out as part of their sick hazing process. End result, one of the crappiest sounding records in the history of rock.

Anyone know of any remixes that use these master tracks to rebuild some tunes off of Justice with Jason's bass lines added into the mix? I'm really curious to know what that album should have sounded like since I've just always written it off as the beginning of the end of Metallica rather than as a very poor production job. Well, I suppose it could easily be both, especially if certain band members would actually go so far as to ruin their own work just to trash a bandmate. In any case I'd still like to hear what it would sound like.

[wicked_child]

try the guitar hero/rock band mixes on youtube.

[Implosion]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Let he who has unlimited studio time cast the first stone

I sat in for a few metal bands when they were recording demo tapes way back when, and the food chain was:

1. Lead guitar
2. Harmonized ead Guitar
3. Lead vocals
4. Backup vocals
5. Rhythm guitar
6. Lead guitar overdubs
7. Drums
8. Drums
9. Bass

Often, it would take days to fiddle over just the right vocal and guitar takes. The bassist was expected to lay his part down in one or two takes, almost as an afterthought. In many cases, the bass was expected to sit so low in the mix, it was seen as not mattering.

Usually, by the time the bass was to be recorded, everyone was realizing just how much of a bill they'd just run up for studio time, and the whole idea was, "hurry up, already," or, "let's get this over with!"

Man you've been in studio with some weird bands. My experiences are also almost solely based on metal and the food chain has been:

1. Drums
2. Drums
3. Drums
4. Rhythm guitar
5. Rhythm guitar
6. Rhythm guitar
7. Vocals
8. Vocals
9. Bass
10. Guitar solos

(Order of recording: drums, rhythm guitar, bass, vocals, solos)
As you can see the drums and rhytyhm guitar get most of the action. Bass doesn't get that much and neither do the solos. The amount of time spent on drums is due to the nature of the music, because playing drums is like playing sports in our case

[mpb13]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Let he who has unlimited studio time cast the first stone

I sat in for a few metal bands when they were recording demo tapes way back when, and the food chain was:

1. Lead guitar
2. Harmonized ead Guitar
3. Lead vocals
4. Backup vocals
5. Rhythm guitar
6. Lead guitar overdubs
7. Drums
8. Drums
9. Bass

Often, it would take days to fiddle over just the right vocal and guitar takes. The bassist was expected to lay his part down in one or two takes, almost as an afterthought. In many cases, the bass was expected to sit so low in the mix, it was seen as not mattering.

Usually, by the time the bass was to be recorded, everyone was realizing just how much of a bill they'd just run up for studio time, and the whole idea was, "hurry up, already," or, "let's get this over with!"

If you're overdubbing everything (like Metallica did), then it's hard to pick up the chemistry, and you really need a couple of takes to warm up. Unfortunately, you're not given a chance.

Of course, alot of isolated bass tracks sound odd. Check out the one for YYZ. At 1:50 or so, you can hear that the solo breaks were punched in, and he's a little shaky afterwards. And that's Geddy Lee, man.

Point is, the studio is a different arena than the stage, and it often places bassists in difficult circumstances.

I've dealt with the same thing many times.

Cliff is one of the main reasons I picked up bass but that wasn't the best I've heard from him. He did the right thing on bass no matter what, which is more than I can say for a lot of bassists.

Edit: I recently recorded with a guitarist that had 50 guitar tracks for his leads. Not 50 takes, there's 50 on the track. I had one.

[JulienJeff]

Originally Posted by tranceFusion

listen to all those Cliff master tracks. they suck. I wish I didn't listen to them. I went back and listened to Battery and all I can hear now is Cliff's buzzing and clanking.

+ 1

[Basshammer]

Originally Posted by wicked_child

i hope the guys can name a good reason for burying jason on the AJFA mix. his isolated tracks were phenomenal.

No doubt. Jason's tracks are killer, glad that they finally are being heard. What a great tone he had too.