When is a compressor necessary vs technique poor??

Blah114 · #1 12-19-2010, 07:53 AM

I had a good show last night.. I always do.. well, I have fun always..

anyway, a guy came up and talked to me about my SVT, etc.. I know he had to be a bassist.. he noticed I had a compressor and said , "When I used to play I could not use a compressor.. I used my touch...it was so even I did not need a compressor"

I did not argue.. but he's wrong.

Not everyone has bad or good technique.. and compressors aren't always about touch.. First of all, during a show, you can get lost in the mix, with the best, even touch in the world.. secondly... what if your bass has "dead spots??" My Fender does.. it's a fact.. I have tested it sonically, in a studio. Its midrange is less pronounced than lower range.. same notes even.. so this is where a compressor comes in. And for me, it's necessary.

The idea that a guy/gal is "cheating" by using a compressor is absurd to me. That's like saying we're cheating by using an amp.. or active pickups.. or a bass guitar..

My technique is not always the best, but it is pretty even.. I am not a master player but have been doing this for 30+ years.. I don't get why people, like the guy last night, think using a compressor somehow correlates to poor technique, or "making up for it.." Sometimes, yes, but not always.. I did not even argue with the guy.. I just told him when he plays out he has to do what's best for himself and the band.. and for me, my Diamond compressor is what does it for me.. I don't use it at high levels, but when I do, subtly, everything is mixed better.. I can also use the same strings for much much longer.. and wood necks will sometimes have lower spots sonically.. like my Fenders..

and talking shop during shows is fine.. but when a bass player basically insults me when my band is playing.. it makes me laugh..

Tunaman · #2 12-19-2010, 08:01 AM

He was out o line. I personally use a compressor for hot spot notes. My eden navigator registers 5 LEDs vs 2 LEDs using the same "touch" on different notes. Also when you're on stage & putting on a show (Jumping around, getting the crowd into it" a compressor helps. If you were a sit in the way back guy while the spot light was on Maria Carey maybe a different story.

Its about the show to the dozens of other people who have no idea you have a compressor vs the crabby bass player. My wife can't tell the difference between a P & a J bass let alone a compressor. The crowd can CERTAINLY tell if you have a sudden loud note and that takes away from the show just like loud feedback.

harmendebresser · #3 12-19-2010, 08:07 AM

One could even argue a compressor works like a protection for your speakers too (that's how I use mine, and think of it anyway)... So many other reasons why it's not about "making up for it" - yes, it's saying more about his knowledge of bassplaying (or, lack there of) then about your technique & you should laugh it off indeed.

plangentmusic · #4 12-19-2010, 08:10 AM

It sounds like he got to you more than you may want to admit. Bottom line ...ARE you using the compressor to compensate for poor technique?

Compressors will even out tone and excuse uneven playing. They also squash the sound and you lose a lot of punch. I like to use just a tiny bit to give a smoother sound, but not so much that it loses all character. At least, that's what I would have said to the guy.

**pacojas** · #5 12-19-2010, 08:17 AM

compressors?!!! we don't NEED no stinkin' compressors over here, imo!
YMMV, tho,
seriously, when i started out i used a very good compression unit as part of my rig. it's twenty years later and i don't miss it because my technique is certainly much better and i now sound compressed by adjusting my touch. if you gave me a compressor i'd prolly sell it or add just a wee bit if bass output is not linear from string to string but my bass set-up is emaculate,... soooo..... CARROTS FOR ME!!!

Nev375 · #6 12-19-2010, 08:21 AM

Just say sarcastically. "Wow, you must be a great bassist. You're right, I totally suck and wish I could play like you."

Then turn and walk off.

skwee · #7 12-19-2010, 08:24 AM

The FOH guy, whom I trust, asked if I wanted to use a light setting on the theatre's compressor (I don't own one myself). I ask him how come, and he says "it will make my mix sound better in the house". That's all I need to know. Listening back to the house feed later on, I can tell you that I sound good, and the mix sounds good. End of story, except that I need to get my own compressor...

Blah114 · #8 12-19-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

It sounds like he got to you more than you may want to admit. Bottom line ...ARE you using the compressor to compensate for poor technique?

Compressors will even out tone and excuse uneven playing. They also squash the sound and you lose a lot of punch. I like to use just a tiny bit to give a smoother sound, but not so much that it loses all character. At least, that's what I would have said to the guy.

I hardly use any compression at all.. but no, the guy did not really get to me.. I am still amazed at what people will say, though.. that's just ignorant to say, in my opinion.. and I have already said.. if a bass has some dead spots.. then your technique does not mean much.. I have 8 Fenders.. the two I use live have some odd dead spots..

bottom line is we all must use what we have to use.. I think saying a compressor is cheating.. is like saying an amp's EQ is cheating.. it's ludicrous to have the mentality that compression is solely used for poor technique.. you could say the same of EQ.. or other things.. I get lost in a mix without the Diamond.. I can hardly notice it there, but when it's not, I notice.. same with a VT pedal.. all tools I use.. and I play out about 8 times a month.. I trust some sound people more than others.. it varies from club to club.. and sometimes we do our own sound, which really makes the compressor necessary.. add some horns in , as we do from time to time.. and the bass can quickly get lost..

**pacojas** · #9 12-19-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skwee

The FOH guy, whom I trust, asked if I wanted to use a light setting on the theatre's compressor (I don't own one myself). I ask him how come, and he says "it will make my mix sound better in the house". That's all I need to know. Listening back to the house feed later on, I can tell you that I sound good, and the mix sounds good.

lol,... that's where my compressor ended up! i took it out of my bass efx loop and put on our sound board to aid the FOH. definitely improved our total output/mix as a whole band. but just for the bass...., meh.

basswave · #10 12-19-2010, 08:46 AM

I use a DBX 166A for a lot of situations and love it.
I'm not putting any thoughts into via an ego.

If you dig it and like them...Then use them.
If anyone cares then its their issue.

Peace

Blah114 · #11 12-19-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacojas

lol,... that's where my compressor ended up! i took it out of my bass efx loop and put on our sound board to aid the FOH. definitely improved our total output/mix as a whole band. but just for the bass...., meh.

I have done this too.. but if you play more than one place, with more than one sound person/mix.. this is not necesssarily the solution

ninepoundjammer · #12 12-19-2010, 08:48 AM

I use a dual band comp for slapping, really helps even things out. Am I covering up for poor technique? Possibly, but I just about never play slap on gigs (mostly in my bedroom) and I really just don't care what other people say on this matter anyways.

I recently purchased a tube head that I use on maybe 50% of my gigs, and I really love how it compresses when I dig in. It lets me get a more aggressive tone without increasing my volume so I set better in the mix. I've recently started using an absolutely minimal amount of compression when playing fingers on my SS rig to try to duplicate this. It doesn't 100% nail it, but it gets me closer to that tube sound. I run the comp after my VT Bass, so it's nice that the small amount of OD I get from the VT is very touch sensitive though my volume stays a bit more consistent.

Jim Carr · #13 12-19-2010, 08:53 AM

A compressor can help you get a bit more volume out of your rig, and if it offers EQ and boost, it can make a passive bass active. Almost all recordings and certainly ALL radio and TV programs are compressed. So what is the big deal? If you can play expressively, swing, nail a groove, then use a compressor if it makes the sound you want.

**pacojas** · #14 12-19-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blah114

I have done this too.. but if you play more than one place, with more than one sound person/mix.. this is not necesssarily the solution

agreed!
i'm in favor of slight compression as needed. i don't really miss it these days when i play. aren't a lot of the modern bass amps configured with some compression out of the box? it sure sounds like it.
come to think of it,.. i was able to have Ned Steinberger custom wire my bass and i swear he put a compressor-chip in that thing before he handed back to me. the output seemed to explode after the up-grade with major sustain and punch!

Bassdirty · #15 12-19-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blah114

anyway, a guy came up and talked to me about my SVT, etc.. I know he had to be a bassist.. he noticed I had a compressor and said , "When I used to play I could not use a compressor.. I used my touch...it was so even I did not need a compressor"

That guy sounds like a jackface.
I also use compression.Sure maybe I cld play more "evenly" on my own if I wanted too...but lets face it , I'm a rockstar..so I'm too busy runnin around jumpin off $h!t and interacting with the crowd to be that focused on my "touch".

unclejane · #16 12-19-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

It sounds like he got to you more than you may want to admit. Bottom line ...ARE you using the compressor to compensate for poor technique?

Compressors will even out tone and excuse uneven playing. They also squash the sound and you lose a lot of punch. I like to use just a tiny bit to give a smoother sound, but not so much that it loses all character. At least, that's what I would have said to the guy.

I used a compressor for quite a while when I was gigging, but in that case it was to even out the bass (Rick 4003). The rick is notorious for having a dead E string but being way louder on the D and G, especially when played high up on the neck. Mine were no exceptions. So I bought and used a Boss compressor as a desperation measure to even out the sound.

Once I got my hands on better basses (like my G&L and Carvin) and got rid of the frets, I kind of lost interest in using compression because they're so much easier to get an even sound out of. Hard work on my technique (especially after switching to fretless) without compression has helped a lot also. But even today on my current 4003, I yearn for a compressor a little bit after a song or two.

But to me it's like any effect, something I would only use for special occasions and not something I would want to become dependent on. If it is being used to cover up an inconsistent sound or technique, then it becomes kind of crutch, IMO.

LS

**Faderoktopus** · #17 12-19-2010, 09:48 AM

The idea of anything in music being "cheating" is ridiculous. Music is about music, not about living up to some purist standard of performance. The reason I dislike what ome artists are doing with autotuning is that I don't think it sounds good (with many exceptions), and the reason I dislike playback is because I enjoy live music being more dynamic and unpredictable than recorded music. I love the sound of my Mad Professor comp. and tend to leave it on at a subtle setting all the time. It colours the attack in a pleasant way and, as an added bonus, helps out the sound tech.

lowstrung5 · #18 12-19-2010, 10:34 AM

If it sounds good, feels good, makes you play better, I don't see a downside. The audience does'nt care how you get a good sound. You can call compressors a "crutch" if you want. In reality it's just another tool we have to reproduce a certain effect on the sound. We all know any effect can be overused or abused. Use a compressor or not.........but don't feed your own ego thinking you're a better player just because you don't use one.

SGS · #19 12-20-2010, 01:58 AM

The second time I read this I pulled out a very key thing that this guy said to you. Pay careful attention to these 2 words because once you do it changes your entire perception of his statement -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blah114

"When I used to play I could not use a compressor.. I used my touch...it was so even I did not need a compressor"

Now if he really did use those 2 words your response should have been along the lines of "why don't you play now?" It sounds like he was simply being an armchair quarterback since he used to play 2 hand touch at the park with friends when he was a kid.

Photobassist · #20 12-20-2010, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGS

The second time I read this I pulled out a very key thing that this guy said to you. Pay careful attention to these 2 words because once you do it changes your entire perception of his statement -

Now if he really did use those 2 words your response should have been along the lines of "why don't you play now?" It sounds like he was simply being an armchair quarterback since he used to play 2 hand touch at the park with friends when he was a kid.

+1... nice catch on the words.... definitely an armchair guy.