Where do we go from here?

xlows · #1 10-27-2007, 01:59 AM

Hey all,

I was just thinking about how far our instrument has come as far as how many ways it can be used. From the initial use in simple grooves and carrying root notes to slapping and lead bass, in 50-odd years, electric bass has grown incredibly fast. Think of how Duck Dunn and John Myung can both be considered greats, yet lie so far apart in how they use a bass. So, my question:

Since so many bases have been covered, what is the next frontier for bass playing? What's the next place for bass to fit into music? Basically, what ground has yet to be covered?

I personally have no clue. Looking back, I see how a thousand years worth of music has evolved in the past hundred, and I can only ponder what lies in the future.

Asa Samuel · #2 10-27-2007, 04:00 AM

Shut up and keep playing, it will come around soon enough.

Mike Flynn · #3 10-27-2007, 04:03 AM

How about just going out and making music - forgetting about technique, theory or anything else and just playing to uplift people from their daily grind? That'll do for me.

M

Hawaii Islander · #4 10-27-2007, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlows

Hey all,

I was just thinking about how far our instrument has come as far as how many ways it can be used. From the initial use in simple grooves and carrying root notes to slapping and lead bass, in 50-odd years, electric bass has grown incredibly fast. Think of how Duck Dunn and John Myung can both be considered greats, yet lie so far apart in how they use a bass. So, my question:

Since so many bases have been covered, what is the next frontier for bass playing? What's the next place for bass to fit into music? Basically, what ground has yet to be covered?

I personally have no clue. Looking back, I see how a thousand years worth of music has evolved in the past hundred, and I can only ponder what lies in the future.

It is happening very slowly, but I see the bass being used more up front in some music providing the main voice of the song with other instruments playing the supporting role. I think Billy Sheehan and some of John Myung's work attests to that. Surpisingly, some of the bass players that I talk to locally seem skeptical of this approach to playing bass, even more so than guitarists. I like to experiment. I also like to keep an open mind.

skaliwag66 · #5 10-27-2007, 07:44 AM

20-24 string basses.

professor_bills · #6 10-27-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaliwag66

20-24 string basses.

Wouldn't that be like a piano without hammers?

Vengoropatubus · #7 10-27-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor_bills

Wouldn't that be like a piano without hammers?

No, it would be like a piano. You'd use your thumb as a hammer.

xlows · #8 10-28-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Junkie

Shut up and keep playing, it will come around soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn

How about just going out and making music - forgetting about technique, theory or anything else and just playing to uplift people from their daily grind? That'll do for me.

M

Not saying that I won't keep playing or anything here... I'm just wondering what direction you think bass as an instrument will go next. I don't think you read my post.

waffle puzzle · #9 10-28-2007, 01:10 AM

the way I look at it, the post-upright bass has branched into a few categories, which seem to me to be about the end of the line.

1. traditional bass---support role---rock, pop, country, whatever
2. lead oriented bass in a band setting---evolved to Les Claypool types
3. multi-string (usually solo) players---an 11-string bass can't really be called a "bass" anymore, can it ?
4. effects laden---can involve looping projects and ambient grooves
5. synth---doomed to replace the electric bass in some genres of music

I'm not saying that these categories don't overlap within the same player, but I don't see where "bassness" in general is going to vary from these sub-genres. Of course, I might be tired and typing out of my elbow.

lemur821 · #10 10-28-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii Islander

It is happening very slowly, but I see the bass being used more up front in some music providing the main voice of the song with other instruments playing the supporting role.

I'm rooting for this myself. I'd like to see the bass step up as a lower pitched guitar. It's pretty amazing how you can use a bass when you EQ for that sound rather than EQing to stay out of the way, hold down the low end, and so on. Of course lows are important, but I don't mind letting someone else provide them sometimes.

When I listen to chiptunes, old video game music and other electronic music, one thing that really stands out is that the bass is playing some great lines and carrying the song. For some reason it's like everyone else is more willing to really use bass tones than bassists are.

lethargytartare · #11 10-28-2007, 01:44 AM

A few things that may just be variations on themes, but that I could see being the basis for more experimentation. And I'm sure most of these have been done, but I haven't seen them become dominant themes in any band's style:

- multiple basses -- without even requiring n-string basses, just using two basses which could be used to reinforce the rhythm differently, or a rhythm/lead arrangement, etc. You could argue the baritone guitar is a bit of a step in that direction.

- heavier emphasis on the percussive quality of certain playing styles. When you consider how much percussion results from slapping, tapping, and good ol' fashioned digging in, that's something that could, by itself, be the basis for a composition's percussion (just listen to a busy slap tune on an un-amped bass). I also remember Peter Gabriel's bassist at some show playing with these finger-tip-drum-stick-extension-things...seemed to fall into this realm of extra emphasis on the percussive qualities.

- open tunings -- used heavily in guitar, but not so much in bass, afaik. And for that matter, if you have a doubled-string bass, instead of each pair being an octave, why not have them be a different interval...and what if all the sets don't use the same interval. This stuff doesn't really speak to expanding the role of the bass, but could change its character enough to reveal a new or different role...

- and one very broad notion is to have the bass interact with the vocalist more. traditionally the bass is expected to lock in with the drums -- that creates a quality that, very often, we experience as "better" playing. Or the bass interacts heavily with the other instruments. But I don't know of cases where the bass becomes a partner to the vocals -- call and response, harmonizing, whatever.

- what about bass playing incorporating a drone string, like bagpipes? in a sense, what players using a looper do, but instead of an accompanying line, just a background tone. But consider it as a playing style too, maybe -- how would you get that steady drone to continue behind your playing?

It's always fun to speculate!

ltt

Otso · #12 10-28-2007, 03:23 AM

Bassists paying more attention to nuances and trying to make their playing more expressive.

JimmyM · #13 10-28-2007, 05:52 AM

If we knew what ground hasn't been covered with bass, we'd all be doing it! Really, there's not much else innovative to do with bass other than try to get faster and faster and add new strings and effects to it, and so I think now the thing to do would be just to concentrate on making good music with it and concentrate on making your MUSIC unique, not just your bass playing.

lethargytartare · #14 10-28-2007, 12:43 PM

Well, I think focusing on nuances and improving expressiveness are always imperatives for bassists -- and there are scores of musicians out there who deliver in those areas on a consistent basis (and plenty more who don't, obviously).

But there will always be room for something new. It's almost a leap of faith to think that this instrument has reach the pinnacle of its potential in just 60 or 70 years of existence. If you can't conceive of any new developments, maybe the way to go at it is to ask what you think was the LAST significant evolutionary step for it?

Snarf · #15 10-29-2007, 12:33 AM

Where do we go from here? How can anyone even ask this question? Did all the impressionist painters, or the romantic composers, get together and ask, "okay, what now?" No, they played or composed what they felt. I think if anything, the role of bass and the way players play will not be a reflection of the instrument itself, but of outside cultural influences, which has been going on for as long as music has existed.

JimmyM · #16 10-29-2007, 01:02 AM

I think there are certain types of music where you're just not going to be any better than those who came before, like rock and roll, funk-R&B, and even jazz and fusion to a lesser extent. I hate to use the word "played out" but I haven't heard anything innovative in rock and roll bass playing in 15 years. Les Claypool was the last innovative guy I've heard.

So if you're looking for bass heroes, I think they will come from new types of music as they're created, and not from what's already established. On the other hand, that's no reason to stop playing the types of music that are still around. Maybe you might not be an innovator, but if you have heart, that's really all that matters.

lethargytartare · #17 10-29-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarf

Where do we go from here? How can anyone even ask this question? Did all the impressionist painters, or the romantic composers, get together and ask, "okay, what now?" No...

Actually, lots of artists in all media have done exactly that throughout history -- sitting around arguing over the purpose and direction of their craft. And plenty of them didn't have the internet -- odds are lots of them would have used it the same way we are using it here...

detroitfunk · #18 10-29-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Actually, lots of artists in all media have done exactly that throughout history -- sitting around arguing over the purpose and direction of their craft. And plenty of them didn't have the internet -- odds are lots of them would have used it the same way we are using it here...

Thats how Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia were created. Google "The Inklings".

chaosMK · #19 10-29-2007, 11:11 AM

Maybe multiple tracks, combining some of the different approaches mentioned. I did something like that on the last album I recorded (chords with wah/chorus, tapping melody, lead over that).

On a slight tangent, there are two long term goals of mine- proggy odd time sig hip hop, and odd time sig trance/techno.

MysticMichael · #20 10-29-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xlows

Since so many bases have been covered, what is the next frontier for bass playing? What's the next place for bass to fit into music? Basically, what ground has yet to be covered?

I personally have no clue. Looking back, I see how a thousand years worth of music has evolved in the past hundred, and I can only ponder what lies in the future.

With due respect to the OP, having posted this thread in the "Technique" forum may present a skewed perspective of cause & effect (although I concede there may be no ideal category for this topic). Because any lasting evolutions and/or revolutions in bass musicianship are usually grounded in the concept and composition of the music itself - and not the other way around. (i.e. Duck Dunn & John Myung sound very different from one another because Booker T. & the MGs and Dream Theater sound very different from one another.) Therefore, the role of the bass will evolve as music itself evolves - although it's true that occasional innovations in technique can sometimes inspire new compositional approaches as well...

The issue of composition vs. technique in music is a lot like the issue of writing vs. production values in film: It's substance vs. application. Substance must always dictate application - and not the other way around...

MM