Who here actually plays free jazz?

JAUQO III-X · #1 10-16-2009, 10:49 AM

If you do, or have at some point what are your thoughts on the genre? And how has it affected your musical creativeness and has it helped you grow as a bassist?

Billnc · #2 10-16-2009, 11:01 AM

It's more fun to play than it is to listen to I think. I played it for a few years in a side project. What I found annoying while playing it was that it seemed few players interacted with what was going on around them. Free doesn't mean just wailing away, you still should react intelligently to the other players. What was fascinating, was after a lot of gigs was many of the "free" pieces became much shorter set compositions. Maybe noisy etc but played exactly the same way each gig.

fearceol · #3 10-16-2009, 11:13 AM

While I dont play free jazz, I'm a big listening fan. When played by seasoned players who are all interacting with one another it can be a very rewarding experience. One of my favourite bands is "Last Exit" with Bill Lasewell on bass (see link below )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJReBzx9Duk

The sax player here, Peter Brotzmann has been a major European name since the 60's. Look up "Machine Gun" on You Tube" for a tour de force that's hard to equal, even today. I'll save you the trouble.... here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWiO5SFoh8g

JAUQO III-X · #4 10-16-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearceol

While I dont play free jazz, I'm a big listening fan. When played by seasoned players who are all interacting with one another it can be a very rewarding experience. One of my favourite bands is "Last Exit" with Bill Lasewell on bass (see link below )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJReBzx9Duk

The sax player here, Peter Brotzmann has been a major European name since the 60's. Look up "Machine Gun" on You Tube" for a tour de force that's hard to equal, even today. I'll save you the trouble.... here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWiO5SFoh8g

I'm very familiar with Last Exit and Peter Brotzman and I have to agree.

Billnc · #5 10-16-2009, 11:36 AM

Yes, Sonny Sharrock is a master too, He and Pharoah Sanders played great together in Ask The Ages. Many Mansions is probably my favorite free piece of all time. I've enjoyed listening to Art Ensemble of Chicago and Cecil Taylor. Guitar, I think Han Benink (sp?) on drums and Derek Bailey played well together. Steve Lacey is another who could go from straight ahead to free very well, Live at the Sweet Basil, while fairly straight goes way out at times.

JAUQO III-X · #6 10-16-2009, 11:49 AM

If you dig Derek Bailey and you haven't, check out the recording he did with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and G. Calvin Weston called Mirakle.

kenlacam · #7 10-16-2009, 11:53 AM

I find expensive jazz more enjoyable....

Darkstrike · #8 10-16-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenlacam

I find expensive jazz more enjoyable....

You get what you pay for in jazz?!

John Wentzien · #9 10-16-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

If you dig Derek Bailey and you haven't, check out the recording he did with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and G. Calvin Weston called Mirakle.

+1
Jamaaladeen was one of the reasons I bought a Steinberger XL2 in the 80's.

nad · #10 10-16-2009, 12:01 PM

I consider one of my groups free jazz (Quadrance), although it equally lives in the realm of rock as well. Either way it's a variety of instruments (guitars, multiple basses, a DJ, drums, sax, flute, keys, whatever else shows up) and it is completely improvised. It's a bit of a collective and I haven't been actively involved with them lately, but over the last year it taught me a lot as a player. Since I was usually the second bassist it allowed me the freedom to pretty much solo and use weird effects the whole time, which, oddly enough, also taught me how to stay much more solid in the pocket with my "regular" band. The balance of things, etc.

chicago_mike · #11 10-16-2009, 12:06 PM

I played jazz for free once. Does that count? I do like Primetime every now and then but never played in a free jazz group. Would like to but too often sounds way too un organized..free is cool, but you should still listen.

Billnc · #12 10-16-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

If you dig Derek Bailey and you haven't, check out the recording he did with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and G. Calvin Weston called Mirakle.

Cool, I'll do that, thanks for the tip.

pes_laul · #13 10-16-2009, 01:18 PM

I've always liked playing it because it's like you can go off and improvise so much and all the players would improvise of eachother. Lot's of fun.

dougjwray · #14 10-16-2009, 01:27 PM

Speaking of Jamaaladeen Tacuma, I saw him a couple of times with James "Blood" Ulmer. Both times, they played Blood's songs, which were slightly more commercial, and then broke out the harmolodic funk jamming at the end. When they did, it raised the roof off the joint. During that stuff, there was still a groove, so it wasn't 100% "free."
When I saw the Art Ensemble of Chicago several times during the late '70s, they WOULD play 100% free music, and then shift into swinging modal stuff at the end, and, again, off came the roof.
Finally, I got to see the Sam Rivers and Dave Holland duo around that time, and that was INCREDIBLE! 100% free all night, and the two were listening to each other at an unbelievable level. (And, naturally, Dave was improvising counterpoint to Sam's saxophone, flute and piano lines, head-to-head, with the same fluency, at amazing tempos.) Years later, I had a chance to talk to Dave about those shows, and he told me that Sam instructed him to use everything in his vocabulary. In other words, don't worry about thinking, "What would Charlie Haden do here"; just throw in everything, even disco things, for example. He said it was a great lesson.

fryBASS · #15 10-16-2009, 01:34 PM

Bitches Brew anyone??

Billnc · #16 10-16-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Speaking of Jamaaladeen Tacuma, I saw him a couple of times with James "Blood" Ulmer. Both times, they played Blood's songs, which were slightly more commercial, and then broke out the harmolodic funk jamming at the end. When they did, it raised the roof off the joint. During that stuff, there was still a groove, so it wasn't 100% "free."
When I saw the Art Ensemble of Chicago several times during the late '70s, they WOULD play 100% free music, and then shift into swinging modal stuff at the end, and, again, off came the roof.
Finally, I got to see the Sam Rivers and Dave Holland duo around that time, and that was INCREDIBLE! 100% free all night, and the two were listening to each other at an unbelievable level. (And, naturally, Dave was improvising counterpoint to Sam's saxophone, flute and piano lines, head-to-head, with the same fluency, at amazing tempos.) Years later, I had a chance to talk to Dave about those shows, and he told me that Sam instructed him to use everything in his vocabulary. In other words, don't worry about thinking, "What would Charlie Haden do here"; just throw in everything, even disco things, for example. He said it was a great lesson.

Great stories.

Duos can be incredible, Ron Carter and Jim Hall would go way outside when I saw them. I saw Mick Goodrick and Jim Hall do a completely free piece (with Jim Hall pulling strings off the guitar, whod've thought he'd do that?) and they listened to each other perfectly.

acleex38 · #17 10-16-2009, 02:06 PM

Getting to see Sam Rivers and Dave Holland play that way together just jumped to the top of my list of shows I wish I'd seen.

Greyvagabond · #18 10-16-2009, 02:09 PM

I don't, but Spinal Tap does a mean "Jazz Odyssey"

smarvelous · #19 10-16-2009, 02:19 PM

I'm in the more fun to play than listen to. I did a workshop with pianist Art Lande. He has a way of "teaching" free jazz. I put that in quotes because he's not saying this is correct, just a way to play the game. He puts forth a set of rules that you can operate by. The fundamental principle is: you are listening. The next is you should recognize who is "speaking" or taking the lead at any one time. Finally you decide what you want to say and choose something that either: supports what they're saying, opposes it (clashes with it), or is indifferent to what they're saying (i.e. say something of your own that doesn't relate at all) or, finally, play nothing. I think that was the basic setup (mea culpa if I mis-represented it, long time ago...). I had a lot fun with that. I think we can learn a lot from this kind of playing. Lots of times, even with "pre-planned" music, people don't listen to each other; this system puts listening at the forefront.

gnasher1993 · #20 10-16-2009, 02:20 PM

I used to play in a band that played free jazz/ambience.

I feel it made me improve as a bassist simply because there's alot of space and you've got to play around it; something I struggled with at first. I used to be the one that played too much.

On a different note, where do you draw the line between free jazz and ambience...and who draws that line? Just a thought...