Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method

[Derio]

just to interject, slinging the bass low is old fashioned..

if ya wanna be cool, put it up nice and high!

yeah baby! =)

[bunkaroo]

I've been a pick player for almost 25 years now (age 38) and thankfully have not had any problems yet. From seeing examples in this thread I do believe I am close to the CK method. I do let my wrist do all the work and tend to rest the inside of my forearm on the body, but my wrist is straight. I do tend to let the bottom of my hand touch the high strings when I am picking the low strings.

Right now the issue I am having is with playing faster syncopated rhythms in my metal band while standing. When I'm sitting, I can play for hours with hardly any fatigue. However when I stand I have a hard time doing some 16th note stuff at faster tempos. This stuff is primarily on the low B so I'm always on a thick string, either B or E. I use 45-130 gauges on most of my 5-strings. Never anything lighter than 130 on the B. I've also had some problems with cramping below my thumb but I believe this has been from gripping the pick too tightly and picking too hard if I can't hear myself.

I've switched over to Spector basses exclusively for this band, and anyone familiar with them knows they tend to hang at more of an angle than a traditional bass due to the placement of the strap button away from the heel of the bass. I believe what happens is this makes me pick closer to the bridge which doesn't feel like what I'm used to. I'm experimenting with shortening my strap considerably. I never wore my bass low anyway, but it seems I may need to get the body most above my belt to get the angle I am used to while sitting.

Also, I've been using .88 Dunlop Nylons forever, but I am now considering trying heavier picks. I liked that the .88's would develop a slight curve to them that IMO would roll off the string more easily on downstrokes.

I've ordered a bunch of picks of varying types from 1m-3mm so we'll see where things land. I may post a couple pics of my picking for critique so go easy if I do.

[Bowe]

Great info JimmyM - been working in plectrum work but didn't really get it quite right and there is plenty of other good info on her site.

Now I have to go home and practice, when I get out of the office.

[funnyfingers]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

5. (OOPS...forgot this one...extremely important!) Don't play just downstrokes. Always play down-up. Downstrokes take your wrist out of the side to side movement and cause pain. "But Jimmy," you protest, "Downstrokes sound heavier than upstrokes!" Hmmm, sounds like you need to practice more. If someone can tell the difference between you playing all downstrokes and you playing down-up, just practice it until you get it.

From what I read from her, Carol did the up and downstrokes as part of the sound. Just mentioning that as to suggest there is a difference in the sound. She wrote something like she would always do downstrokes on the beat and upstrokes offbeat.

"...downstrokes on the downbeats and upstrokes with the upbeats..."

But to me a lot of what I read from her really was that type of sound, seems to sound similar to fingerstyle, and she was already a guitarist before picking up a bass.

[t77mackie]

I didn't want to chime in 19 pages late, but I had to...

I don't use a pick all that much, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis!

NO! I meant to say I let the tone I want decide what thickness of pick to use. Usually it's either a fender medium, extra heavy or a Dunlop 500 pink pick .96mm. Using a big honking pick seems to me like it would be more of a CTS offender than a skinny pick.

When I pick I'm not picking through the string, I'm sliding the pick over the string and the point plucks it. I can't see in a million years how this could hurt my hand. I can play for hours and not have a hint of pain.

Also, though I don't anchor my right hand on the bridge, it usually is in at least a little bit of contact with it - that kinda lets me know where my hand is in relation to the bass. Again, though, the tone I want determines where to pick the strings.

I highly, highly doubt my technique is gonna hurt me. I've been playing for 25 years and everything seems to work great.

Maybe I'm superhuman?

[SGD Lutherie]

Thicker picks give you more control and you aren't wasting energy having the pick bend. You don't have to hit the strings as hard.

I find with a thinner pick I have to more more effort into it to get the same tone.

You are correct, it should just be the tip hitting the string (this is also true of playing with your fingers, which is why I don't get the point in ramps. Your fingers should not go past the string anyway).

I pick on a very slight angle when playing guitar with very small movements, unless I'm doing rhythm which is lots of downstrokes. I bass I pick with the bass more parallel to the strings.

I can play with a pick all day long with no discomfort, but my fingers will get sore and sometimes cramp playing finger style. I played guitar for four hours straight last night. My left hand fingers are sore, but my right wrist is just peachy.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by t77mackie

I didn't want to chime in 19 pages late, but I had to...

I don't use a pick all that much, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis!

NO! I meant to say I let the tone I want decide what thickness of pick to use. Usually it's either a fender medium, extra heavy or a Dunlop 500 pink pick .96mm. Using a big honking pick seems to me like it would be more of a CTS offender than a skinny pick.

As David said, a thick pick makes your hand work less hard to project the notes.

When I pick I'm not picking through the string, I'm sliding the pick over the string and the point plucks it. I can't see in a million years how this could hurt my hand. I can play for hours and not have a hint of pain.

Also, though I don't anchor my right hand on the bridge, it usually is in at least a little bit of contact with it - that kinda lets me know where my hand is in relation to the bass. Again, though, the tone I want determines where to pick the strings.

I highly, highly doubt my technique is gonna hurt me. I've been playing for 25 years and everything seems to work great.

Maybe I'm superhuman?

It was approximately the 25 year mark in my playing when I first started getting pains from playing with a pick. I hit 40 and that was all she wrote. Maybe you will get lucky and never have pains...and maybe you won't get so lucky. If you don't, then count yourself lucky. But if you do end up getting pains, this is how to play with a pick and not get pains.

[georgestrings]

Yeah, I use medium picks, also - heavys just don't do it for me... I don't really anchor like many guitarists do, but I'm not totally free floating, either - I do use alternate strokes, though - I have to, to play up to speed - and it comes naturally to me... I've been playing for 35 years, and am primarily a pick player, although I can probably cover better than 80% of my material with fingers, without much practice... I've only been playing bass for a little over 20 years, though so maybe that's why I haven't run into issues???

Regardless, I'm all for using proper technique to prevent injury, FWIW...

Edited to add: I have a really strong fretting hand, but play with a fairly light attack with my picking/fingering hand - letting my amp do the "heavy lifting", so that dynamics come easily... I notice when another player uses my rig, we usually have to turn them down a bit - so maybe that all factors into why things work for me the way they do???


- georgestrings

[ugly_bassplayer]

I think I'm goign to give up on tryingh to play with a pick all together.....